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Guantanamo Detainees Said Plotting
AP through Yahoo.com ^ | Sun Jan 27, 9:08 AM ET | Tony Winton

Posted on 01/27/2002 6:40:10 AM PST by petuniasevan

Guantanamo Detainees Said Plotting
Sun Jan 27, 9:08 AM ET

By TONY WINTON, Associated Press Writer

GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba (AP) - Military guards at a detention camp at Guantanamo Bay say they have noticed a command structure emerging among the terrorist suspects being held there, camp leaders said Saturday. The leaders seem to surface during prayer sessions.

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Of the evolving leadership structure, Brig. Gen. Mike Lehnert said, "We have indications that many have received training, and that they are observing actions such as security procedures."

Lehnert, a Marine, heads the task force in charge of the detention missions at Camp X-Ray. Some 158 terrorist suspects from the war in Afghanistan are being held at the camp, in southeastern Cuba.

He said there have been "some attempts to secret away materials or to coordinate activities. Given their background and training, this is something that we have anticipated."

Army Lt. Col. Bernie Liswell, battalion commander of the military police, said the would-be leaders seem to emerge during the five-times daily prayer periods.

"Their main effort collectively appears to be at prayer time," he said, "Such as those who want to lead a prayer."

The Miami Herald this week reported that the most prominent inmate appears to be the former Taliban army chief of staff, Mullah Fazel Mazloom, though U.S. commanders have refused to identify the detainees.

Liswell also told reporters that military guards have found rocks and stones in the cells of some of the suspects, but it was unclear whether the detainees were planning an attack or just playing a game like tic-tac-toe.

"They can either use that as a sharpening device or to write with," he said.

He said some prisoners have been seen trying to write messages in the ground with the rocks.

"We take rocks, tell them not to do that," he said.

Meanwhile, military officials are working on making life more comfortable for the detainees held in open-air cells with walls of chain-link fence set on a concrete slab and topped by a corrugated iron roof.

Army Col. Terry Carrico, the commander of Camp X-Ray, says the prisoners are going to be allowed to grow back their beards, along with the long hair that many devout Muslim men wear and that was shaved off when they were captured.

They're also getting pita bread with their meals now, and officials are working with the International Committee of the Red Cross on detainees' requests to have tea and novels to read, Carrico said.

Officials have adopted a system of punishment for bad behavior and rewards for good.

"We've issued prayer (skull) caps today," Carrico said. "We can always reward good behavior." Earlier this week, the prisoners appeared pleased when a Muslim Navy cleric arrived to lead morning prayers, and they were given Qurans, the sacred text of Islam.

In isolated instances when prisoners "act out," a comfort item is withdrawn.

"We've taken, for instance, their water bottle. They decided to throw water at us. We took their canteens of water, we kept it for a few hours, and we gave it back to them.

"It seems to do the trick," he said.

Some 20 legislators from the United States toured the camp this weekend amid an international outcry over the treatment and status of the detainees. The suspected al-Qaida and Taliban fighters held there were being interrogated by American authorities seeking intelligence to help the U.S.-led war on terrorism.

The prisoners are from 25 countries and some may be sent to their homelands to face military tribunals once interrogators have completed questioning them, Republican Sen. James Inhofe of Oklahoma said Friday.

Officials have refused to identify the detainees nationalities, but Britain, Sweden, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Australia have said they have citizens among detainees in Guantanamo.

The delegation said it was more interested in finding whether interrogations that began Wednesday were yielding useful information to fight the war on terrorism.

Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson said interrogators "are starting to obtain valuable information."

Several of the visitors also said they found the treatment humane and backed the U.S. refusal to bow to demands that the detainees be declared prisoners-of-war under the Geneva Conventions, which would prevent them being tried by secret military commissions empowered with the death sentence.

"We're dealing with terrorists here ... They don't represent a country. They don't wear uniforms," Inhofe said.

Bush administration lawyers are divided over whether the convention applies to the suspects. President Bush feels it does not, saying these detainees are terrorists, not uniformed members of a national military.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 200201; 20020127; australia; beards; bleedingheartattack; britain; campxray; chaplains; clerics; fazelmazloom; gitmo; interrogations; koran; mazloom; mullahfazelmazloom; mullahmazloom; quran; saudiarabia; sweden; taliban; unlawfulcombatants; yemen
"We're dealing with terrorists here ... They don't represent a country. They don't wear uniforms."

EXACTLY!

1 posted on 01/27/2002 6:40:10 AM PST by petuniasevan
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To: petuniasevan
plotting
2 posted on 01/27/2002 6:44:47 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: petuniasevan
A riot-attempt at Camp Xray will probably happen, some detainees will get killed, and the International Red Cross, ACLU, Amnesty International, etc., will re-start their bleating.
3 posted on 01/27/2002 6:46:07 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: petuniasevan
"Army Col. Terry Carrico, the commander of Camp X-Ray, says the prisoners are going to be allowed to grow back their beards, along with the long hair that many devout Muslim men wear and that was shaved off when they were captured."

Damn, from a mere safety and cleanliness standpoint, I'm disappointed in this news.
4 posted on 01/27/2002 6:46:38 AM PST by demkicker
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To: petuniasevan
I can't imagine what Mr.Powell is thinking of when he advises "W"to re-classify these criminals as POW'S!!.I guess he is like Reuters when they refused to call these people"terrorists"saying that one person's"terrorist"is another's"freedom-fighter"!!!Whose side is he on????????
5 posted on 01/27/2002 6:48:34 AM PST by bandleader
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To: petuniasevan
See, If we treated them humanly, they wouldn't be planning to escape! < /sarcasm>
6 posted on 01/27/2002 6:55:59 AM PST by Gamecock
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To: petuniasevan
Colonel Hackworth said this morning on Fox, "They should be put down." Meaning, like you put down a rabid dog.
7 posted on 01/27/2002 6:58:49 AM PST by gg188
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To: petuniasevan
"We've taken, for instance, their water bottle. They decided to throw water at us. We took their canteens of water, we kept it for a few hours, and we gave it back to them.

A rifle butt in the face might be just as effective.

8 posted on 01/27/2002 7:05:36 AM PST by randog
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To: gg188
Yep, "shot while trying to escape".

I like the sound of that. Nice and clean.

9 posted on 01/27/2002 7:06:14 AM PST by TomB
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To: petuniasevan
These are not POW's. They are not detainees. They are not ex-combatants.
They are terrorists. Not ex-terrorists --- terrorists.
It is naive for anyone to think that the battle is over for any of these combatants.

They are still fighting to the death, only some peripherial circumstances have changed.

10 posted on 01/27/2002 7:06:28 AM PST by THEUPMAN
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Sorry, Sir Smedley.
I always use the exact title; I searched it and the word "Guantanamo" and found it not.
11 posted on 01/27/2002 7:07:26 AM PST by petuniasevan
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To: petuniasevan
Let's start by poking their eyes out.
12 posted on 01/27/2002 7:08:57 AM PST by OldFriend
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To: petuniasevan
These people should not be allowed to be in the proximity with each other to communicate. Isolation. Hoods. Whatever is necessary. Our nice treatment of them is what's enabling them to organize, communicate, establish a "command structure." Next, they'll get conjugal visits with their "ashna" they left behind.

This is insanity. And while we can't pray in our schools, we go to great lengths to make sure that these terrorists---who should be executed summarily---can "pray." Pray to their pagan moon-god or whatever the hell they call it. When they are using this "prayer" time to organize!

WHAT is it going to take for America to wake up? These guys---this little group of manacled detainees---have the power to destroy western civilization. Their kind have tried for 13 centuries---NOW they have the power to do it. Much of that power WE have granted and are granting them.

13 posted on 01/27/2002 7:09:45 AM PST by gg188
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To: petuniasevan
Maybe a late-night baton session with the "leaders" would be a good way of demonstrating our understanding of their power(less) structure.

Seriously, think of the coup it would be for the dust magnets if they could spring their colleauges, unjustly imprisoned for fighting against the Great Satan? It's bad enough that we can't track down Yomama, but an assault on the prison compound -- if successful -- would be a devastating embarrassment. And keep in mind that the enemy is in very supportive territory; Fidel ain't exactly our bosom pal.

14 posted on 01/27/2002 7:21:10 AM PST by IronJack
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To: TomB
You know how we now hire private companies to run jails in many places in the U.S.?

How about we rent out one of Castro's jails, hire his guards, and let the ragheads experience CUBAN prisons. There for life. No beds. No blankets. Effluent standing in the floor. Even the rats are starving, and they nibble inmates as they sleep. Maggots are a prized delicacy for dinner. A little torture just to entertain the warden. Attempt escapes are answered with summary execution, and a couple of cellmates of the escapee are whacked just to send the message to the others.

15 posted on 01/27/2002 7:22:27 AM PST by gg188
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To: bandleader
I can't imagine what Mr.Powell is thinking of . . .

But we all know what he's thinking LIKE - a freakin' liberal. And to think I actually respected this man. Go Condi go!
16 posted on 01/27/2002 7:24:32 AM PST by Xenalyte
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To: IronJack
I think it was the French who learned that there is one sure way---and one way only---to get infomation out of these guys: torture. They'll give it up. I hope like hell that we are taking care of business now to learn everything we can from each one of these ragheads. We must make them give up everyone and everything they know. And when we've drained them dry of information, we whack 'em. (Ok---getting just a bit TOO hopeful with that one.)
17 posted on 01/27/2002 7:30:41 AM PST by gg188
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To: OldFriend
Let's start by poking their eyes out.

Dontcha know, once boys start throwing rocks, someone is going to get hurt!

18 posted on 01/27/2002 7:33:49 AM PST by csvset
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To: petuniasevan
"Their main effort collectively appears to be at prayer time," he said, "Such as those who want to lead a prayer."

Time to take away play pray time, and stop catering to their needs. How many people on 9/11 didn't even get a chance to pray because everything happened so quickly, they didn't know what hit them. This treatment is too good for people. When their prayer time turns to plotting time, it's time to take it away.

19 posted on 01/27/2002 7:33:54 AM PST by BigBlueJon
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To: petuniasevan
Camp X-Ray is disaster waiting to happen. They should have been lined up and shot while still in Afghanistan. Nobody would have been the wiser.
20 posted on 01/27/2002 7:46:54 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: petuniasevan
"We've taken, for instance, their water bottle. They decided to throw water at us. We took their canteens of water, we kept it for a few hours, and we gave it back to them.

"It seems to do the trick," he said.

Poison the water, then give the back to them. Then the last line of the quote can read:

"It does the trick," he said.

21 posted on 01/27/2002 8:03:30 AM PST by VMI70
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To: BigBlueJon
Time to take away play pray time

Absolutely. It's utterly insane to keep fortifying their resolve to persist in their jihad.

Our troops in Saudi and other muslim countries are not allowed to have Bibles. Yet we give these "detainees" an atmosphere of "home" by calling them to prayer 5 times a day so they can pray to satan for the means with which to kill us. Continuing the same familiar rituals only gives them strength.

22 posted on 01/27/2002 8:49:30 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: petuniasevan
True and not true. That is why they should be seperated into two groups. The Taliban were actually a military force fighting for a government that like it or not was the defecto government of Afghanistan. There fore, they are prisoners of war...so is John Walker. By law, he is no longer a US citizen since he joined the Taliban, another nation's military. Therefore he can not be tried under US law, nor though can and should he ever again be allowed in the US and when the war is over, the Taliban prisoners should be released to the tender mercies of the official afghan authorities. As for the Al Quida members, those are terrorists and thus are detaines to be done with as you please.
23 posted on 01/27/2002 10:05:10 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Gamecock
It is the duty of all captured fighting men to always plan to escape and take over...otherwise they are collaberators.
24 posted on 01/27/2002 10:06:22 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: IronJack
In truth, I highly doubt that Fidel would let these animals run loose on his land. If anything he is an authoritarians despot who wants total control of his CATHOLIC population...Cuba already said they'd just give them back. Otherwise, they'd have to squander precious resources in dealing with these maggets.
25 posted on 01/27/2002 10:09:09 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Lion's Cub
No, no no, give them everything the Euroes demand...everything. Treat them like spoiled little children that the EU wants...then allow them to rebel. Once you've butchered half of them and some of your soldiers have died, you have all the excuse for a total crack down. See,EU, we tried your way and all that got us is blood...now it's time for a crack down.
26 posted on 01/27/2002 10:11:23 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: petuniasevan
"Playing" a game like tic tac toe...??? Please tell me that a US military man did NOT say that.
27 posted on 01/27/2002 10:12:06 AM PST by Libertina
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To: petuniasevan
Electrify the fences, rename the camp Jurassic Park. Set up a CD ROM guided tour with the voice of Richard Kiley...'"Welcome to Jurassic Park. You are now entering the lost world of the prehistoric past..."' on your right you will see the first dinosaur on our tour...the Dilophosaurs (known to spit). The big mean ones, down the row, that look like six foot turkeys are the Velociraptors. Caution all the dinosaurs at the park will bite and will kill if given the chance.
28 posted on 01/27/2002 10:44:09 AM PST by CathyRyan
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To: Stavka2
Once you've butchered half of them and some of your soldiers have died, you have all the excuse for a total crack down. See,EU, we tried your way and all that got us is blood...now it's time for a crack down.

I hope that was said with tongue-in-cheek, since I've no desire to sacrifice even one of our soldiers to placate the Euro trash. (And please note, I did not say "Europeans", as I'm certain there are many Europeans trying to hold onto bastions of sanity over there.)

29 posted on 01/27/2002 11:36:31 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: Stavka2
Well, what Fidel says and what Fidel does are often two different things. It wouldn't behoove him to take TOO hostile a stance, harboring terrorists, etc. with the US in the mood it's in these days and Cuba within spitting distance of our mainland.
30 posted on 01/27/2002 11:57:18 AM PST by IronJack
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To: Stavka2
"That is why they should be seperated into two groups. The Taliban were actually a military force fighting for a government that like it or not was the defecto government of Afghanistan. There fore, they are prisoners of war...so is John Walker. By law, he is no longer a US citizen since he joined the Taliban, another nation's military. Therefore he can not be tried under US law..."

The Taliban, as a recognized government, was (until its recent dismantling by the US) only recognized by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia; not the United States, and certainly not the Northern Alliance Afghanis. Therefore, BY LAW, American law, the United States of America's Constitution: Walker is: an American, an American citizen, an American whose religion is Muslim and a member of the Taliban and an American Talaban terrorist. Walker is ALL of these things.

There has been no official declaration of a war, either by Congress or President Bush. Just like Viet Nam, this "war on terrorism" is in reality a military operation. Thus the name: "Operation Enduring Freedom." Therefore, there are no P.O.W.s; no prisoners of WAR.

Just wanted to clear up some of the facts.

31 posted on 01/27/2002 3:02:32 PM PST by alyx
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To: alyx
First off, if you are going to follow the US constitution, then this whole thing is illegal because Congress DID NOT declare WAR. Anyways, Korea was equally not a WAR but in it prisoner transfers were common place. Communist China was not recognized by the US for almost 30 years, that did not change reality of the Communists and not the nationalists being in charge. Since they were recognized by several countries, they were the government. As for the Confederacy, should the Union have slaughtered the Southern soldiers? After all, by your standards, they were never recognized by the only government I guess that matters? I guess that's why the indians were treated so well by the US, they weren't recognized by it.
32 posted on 01/27/2002 3:31:40 PM PST by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
"First off, if you are going to follow the US constitution, then this whole thing is illegal because Congress DID NOT declare WAR. Anyways, Korea was equally not a WAR but in it prisoner transfers were common place. Communist China was not recognized by the US for almost 30 years, that did not change reality of the Communists and not the nationalists being in charge. Since they were recognized by several countries, they were the government. As for the Confederacy, should the Union have slaughtered the Southern soldiers? After all, by your standards, they were never recognized by the only government I guess that matters? I guess that's why the indians were treated so well by the US, they weren't recognized by it."

The use of "if" (refer to "if you are going to use the Constitution . . .") is precisely the point. The use of "Since" is the logical choice, and in so doing, reaffirms and RE-establishes the prescribed American course of action in dealing with Walker and any future captured American terrorists.

As for the "war on terrorism" being one that it ought be illegal due to Congress' not having officially declaring a war: President Bush stated it accurately: The 9/11 events are ACTS of war on the part of the perpetrators (unknown at that time).

Your statement,"Korea was equally not a WAR but in it prisoner transfers were common place" does not argue for your point to regard Walker as a P.O.W. There is no question that Walker is definitely a prisoner. However, without an enacted declaration of war, there is no war -- at least, not in keeping with its traditional definition. Which may have to change since the concept of war has dramatically changed.

Regarding "Communist China was not recognized by the US for almost 30 years, that did not change reality of the Communists and not the nationalists being in charge.": The US didn't wage war against China in the Korean conflict (which also was never declared a war); China fought with Korea in that militarily fought conflict but the conflict was with Korea.

As for "Since they were recognized by several countries, they were the government" to be intended to substantiate the claim that the US is militarily fighting a country because the Taliban is recognized as a government by other countries other than the US, are we (the US) then at war with Afghanistan? According to our elected government officials (President Bush, VP Cheney, etc.) and appointed government officials such as Rumsfeld, we are not at war with Afghanistan or any other country (yet). Furthermore, as I stated before, the fact that the United States has never acknowledged or recognized the Taliban regime as the Government of Afghanistan, the United States is correct to posture itself at war against terrorism and not with Afghanistan.

As for: "As for the Confederacy, should the Union have slaughtered the Southern soldiers? After all, by your standards, they were never recognized by the only government I guess that matters? I guess that's why the indians were treated so well by the US, they weren't recognized by it":I didn't bring up anything regarding the Confederacy or the Union or the slaughtering of Southern soldiers or the ill treatment of the Native Americans during that time . . .I would not have included anything related to these incidents within the context that I wrote.

As for "my standards": I am an American citizen, bound by the same Constitution, Bill of Rights, and other such documents as all other Americans, including Walker (until he is deemed otherwise in a court of law). THESE are my standards. And when I think that something needs to change, I use the System of Democracy that America uses (petitioning for an amendment, voting at the polls, etc.). Americans who think its standards ought to be changed should take advantage of the Constitutional right to get it amended. In the meantime, it is the same Constitution that protects all Americans -- including Walker.

In conclusion, consider the latest statements (1-27-02) from our government as reported moments ago by Robert Burns, Associated Press: "They are not POWs. They will not be determined to be POWs,'' Rumsfeld told reporters accompanying him on his first visit to the detention facility, a hot and dusty camp amid scrub brush and rock. The Bush administration considers the captured fighters to be "unlawful combatants'' and "detainees'' rather than prisoners of war because they don't represent a recognized government and their method of terror violates internationally accepted laws of warfare. The distinction is significant because under the Geneva Conventions, written after World War II, a POW has certain legal rights that would govern the U.S. military's interrogations of the detainees and would require that they be released when the hostilities in Afghanistan are over. If there is any ambiguity about whether a captive should be considered a prisoner of war, the Geneva Conventions say a special three-person military tribunal should be convened to decide. Rumsfeld said that is irrelevant at Guantanamo Bay "There is no ambiguity in this case,'' he said. Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday that officials agree the detainees are not prisoners of war. But administration lawyers are debating whether the Geneva Conventions, which have provisions that deal with unlawful combatants, apply in this case."

Since I am in agreement with this determination (so far), I am not seeking to change anything . . . which is also a Constitutional right.

33 posted on 01/27/2002 6:13:01 PM PST by alyx
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