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Missing [San diego] girl's neighbor went to desert, beach and back
San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | 9 February 2002 | Kelly Thornton Elizabeth Fitzsimons and Joe Hughes

Posted on 02/09/2002 6:53:27 AM PST by crypt2k

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To: It's me
Well for starters when he was towed out of the sand he took off leaving his leveling ramps behind. Sure was in a hurry. And who drives out to Glamis twice in a weekend? And only stays a short while. It is not a short drive from San Diego. This guy first met the mother and daughter a week before while they were selling Girl Scout cookies in the neighborhood. If he knew the mother was still out it would have made it much easier to see where the father was and sneek in the house. And the reports here in San Diego are that the guy had child porn. I guess the moral of this story will be not to sell Girl Scout cookies to neighbors and make them aware of you.
141 posted on 02/09/2002 2:52:09 PM PST by willyone
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To: VRWC_minion
I would think that they would take the kids somewhere for the night. Who is going to have an orgy with a ten year old at home. Get real. And why are all of you jumping on the swinger rumors. From what I hear those who are so quick to believe bad about others are ususlly speaking from personal guilt.
142 posted on 02/09/2002 2:56:28 PM PST by willyone
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To: RANGERAIRBORNE;Bug
We still may. Rights which are given up by the people are rarely regained

That's why it frightens me when I see/read people saying, "just let them in, if you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about." Next it will be "just agree with them and sign this admission, if you aren't a criminal, you have nothing to worry about."

143 posted on 02/09/2002 2:58:44 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Bug
NEVER "allow" the police to search your car, house, or any other property without a warrant.

Here's the problem with that approach. This is how guilty people react...

That is how most innocent people would feel. However having worked for the U.S. Attorneys Office in Chicago, my advice is to get lawyered up as fast as you can. Too many prosecuters want to close cases, not find justice.

144 posted on 02/09/2002 3:10:55 PM PST by scholar
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To: dogbyte12
Bizarre. Too bizarre for words. I cannot comprehend such activity.
145 posted on 02/09/2002 3:21:38 PM PST by RGSpincich
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To: Kaslin
That is the part that has bugged me since the first reports. Last week was very cold at night, almost down to freezing. The parents look a lot more culpable at this point than the neighbor. I hate to say it but CPS may need to investigate for once. Prayers for the children!
146 posted on 02/09/2002 3:33:20 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: nicmarlo
Let's put it this way. If my sister's baby was missing, and the police wanted to search my house for evidence, I think I would comply in order to speed up the investigation. There's a slim possibility that they might find some anomalous evidence that they could run off on a tangent with, but that would not offset the greater possibility that eliminating a potential suspect would make the job of finding the real perp easier.

So if you give a damn about the result of the investigation, you may want to cooperate with the authorities, and I do not see this as an abrogation of rights in the least.

147 posted on 02/09/2002 3:38:27 PM PST by tgiles
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To: lsee
Very well stated, and I agree.
148 posted on 02/09/2002 3:47:15 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: ARCADIA
I just thought of something. Maybe the reason they didn't check the children when they saw the alarm blinking & door open is that they assumed it was just one of their swinging friends.

Exactly. The "open door" policy for swingers....and one of the swingers who knew this may have gone upstairs after Danielle while they were "indisposed" in the garage.

149 posted on 02/09/2002 3:51:39 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: SpookBrat; homeschool mama
I'm not defending the parents in any way but I would not hold it against them that they are not showing great emotion. I would be such a basket case that I'm sure a doctor would need to prescribe the strongest sedative available, which would dull any emotions.
150 posted on 02/09/2002 3:56:39 PM PST by muggs
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To: dogbyte12
I think your #135 nails it.

/1/ Westerfield is likely negotiating the body's return for his life.

/2/ The parents know they will look like heartless orgy porgies who were so after chasing their pleasure that they literally left the door open to the abduction of their daughter by one of the many unknown "swingers" they let into their lives. And then they were so spent and consumed by their pleasure chase they didn't even bother to check Danielle's room for over 11 hours until one of her friends came over at 930AM.

They may not have abducted her, but they sure set up the conditions for her abduction.

151 posted on 02/09/2002 4:01:26 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: willyone
The orgy rumors are coming from the police who have been in the converted garage "rec room" with the special locks on the inside.

Why do parents need a garage/party room with locks on the inside?

Can you think of a casual reason for that?

Also, the police have interviewed the folks from the bar who came home to their house. So the cops hve a good idea of what was going on in the garage. That's where the orgy rumors come from.

152 posted on 02/09/2002 4:05:32 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: dogbyte12
I asked this question earlier and no one answered. I thought I heard that the daughter had one of her girlfriends sleep over. The father said he didn't want to disturb the two girls. Did I imagine this?
153 posted on 02/09/2002 4:52:59 PM PST by diefree
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To: Dinsdale
lol. Please. Its called logical conclusions. Most senitent beings are capable of that unless one's defending Bill Clinton.
154 posted on 02/09/2002 4:54:34 PM PST by KantianBurke
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To: dogbyte12
Oh, dogbyte this is so disturbing.....Does this mother remind anyone of Susan Smith?...she does me.
155 posted on 02/09/2002 5:24:49 PM PST by mystery-ak
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To: crypt2k
From the article:

, the van Dams are the subject of rumors that they are involved in a swinging club, where couples typically engage in sex with other couples.

"This is in no way related to the investigation," Brenda van Dam said. "Nothing would get in between me checking on my children. It's a rumor. I don't know why people would want to be hurtful."

is there a denial in there somewhere????

156 posted on 02/09/2002 5:29:18 PM PST by is_is
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To: diefree
I thought I heard that the daughter had one of her girlfriends sleep over. The father said he didn't want to disturb the two girls. Did I imagine this?

========
diefree, you may be recalling the reason for the parents having a pair of pj's that were the very same as the ones that Danielle was wearing the night she was abducted.

At some time prior to that night, Danielle had a sleep-over and the mother thought it would be fun for the girls to have matching pajamas.

There was no sleep-over the night that Danielle taken.

157 posted on 02/09/2002 6:06:40 PM PST by CyberNag
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To: RANGERAIRBORNE
You are so completely off-base on this that I despair of being able to explain the concept of Constitutionally-protected privacy and property rights to you. And, if you think that happily cooperating with anything and everything that the police want at all times is going to make them look more "favorably" upon you, you are dead wrong. In point of fact, many guilty people eagerly cooperate with requests for warrantless searches. Hard to believe, but true. All I can say is that exercising your rights (that is, the right to keep silent, the right to be represented by counsel, and the right to refuse searches without a warrant) does NOT indicate guilt. It demonstrates that you are not an utter fool!

Don't despair, and save your pedantic tone. I know the Constitution and I don't need your explanation.

Your argument makes sense....to a criminal.

My wife is a Federal Special Agent. She's not interested in closing cases by railroading innocents, she's interested in finding the guilty %!@%!$#@ and putting them behind bars. People who have committed no crimes, but who are suspects because of their proximity to the crime scene, spouses or friends of the victim, etc, cooperate with her. They answer her questions. They allow permissive searches. This allows the police to ELIMINATE potential suspects and find the real bad guy. It's not always obvious who committed a crime. The guilty are typically discovered through a process of elimination.

Bad guys lie to her all the time. They don't cooperate. They demand warrants. They won't talk to her. They act in the manner you suggest one should act when interacting with police. If you're guilty of a crime and want to get away with it, it's logical to the act this way. But if you're not guilty, and you're uncooperative, i.e. demand warrants, won't talk without a lawyer, etc., it's logical that the human beings who make up the local, state, and federal police agencies are going to suspect that you ARE guilty because you're behaving that way. And you will attract their attention. That's their job. In doing so, you will divert investigative resources away from the real criminal.

As a law-abiding citizen, aren't you glad that criminals do stupid things like allow warrantless searches and get caught? Do you want to see criminals guilty of crimes escape the consequences of their actions? Do you want to make it hard for police to do their jobs? Do you want to see the guilty go free? What's wrong with cooperating with police when you can help with a criminal investigation? If everyone behaved in the manner you prescribe, the police would not be able to solve many crimes now would they?

If you lived next door to the San Diego family that is missing its daughter would you not talk to the police? Would you not allow them to bring the dog into your house so that they could clear you as a suspect? If you said no, the police would be right to suspect that you had something to do with that crime. If they didn't suspect you, they'd be incompetent! You would be hindering the investigation by not helping, and by diverting resources toward you that could be used to find the real bad guy who molested and killed a little girl. If you cooperate, you're quickly ruled out and law enforcement can get on with doing its very important job of finding the real creep.

As I said, exercise your rights. You're free to do so. But there are consequences to the good guys and victims. My value system recognizes that along with our rights, we have civic responsibilities, one of which is cooperating with police when possible.

158 posted on 02/09/2002 6:12:36 PM PST by Bug
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To: CyberNag
Thanks.
159 posted on 02/09/2002 6:27:27 PM PST by diefree
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Strange, strange, strange. It is so like some sick peverted movie script, I swear every time I read about the neighbor Westerfield, I picture Kevin Bacon. And how about the dog that cannot bark? Another triumph of Hollywood morals.

American Beauty, indeed.

160 posted on 02/09/2002 6:38:37 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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