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Women firefighters say Sept. 11 has made their profession wrongly seem all male
Boston Globe ^ | 18 Mar 2002 | David Crary

Posted on 03/18/2002 9:14:06 AM PST by white trash redneck

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:07:33 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

NEW YORK (AP) The question is awkward to ask, but not hard to answer: Why were no women among the 343 firefighters killed at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11?

Numbers tell the story. Nationally, roughly 2 percent of professional firefighters are female. In New York City, women account for just 28 of 11,400 firefighters less than 0.3 percent.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 911; fdny; feministwatch; firefighters
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Comment from "Best of the Web:"

What a Martyr

Lt. Brenda Berkman is a member of the New York City Fire Department. She was not among the 343 firemen who died on Sept. 11, but she wants the world to know she's a victim anyway. "What was most hurtful," she tells the Associated Press, "was to be so invisible at the funerals and memorial services. "The officials giving the eulogies would talk about 'firemen,' the 'brothers,' the 'men.' After 20 years, it was tough to take."

The FDNY is more than 99.75% male, and 100% of the 343 firemen who died were male. AP informs us that Berkman "had to sue her way into the fire department," Maybe she should bring a right-to-die suit. The FDNY is more than 99.75% male, and 100% of the 343 firemen who died were male. AP informs us that Berkman "had to sue her way into the fire department," Maybe she should bring a right-to-die suit.

1 posted on 03/18/2002 9:14:07 AM PST by white trash redneck
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To: white trash redneck
Waaaaaaa!!!!!! Waaaaaaaaaah!!!! I'm a victim too!!!!!!!!
2 posted on 03/18/2002 9:21:09 AM PST by The Old Hoosier
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To: white trash redneck
The People's Daily aka Boston Globe had another tear jerker about same-sex partnerships
getting shortchanged on the cash disbursments to families directly impacted by 9/11.
3 posted on 03/18/2002 9:21:33 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: white trash redneck
This woman is a disgrace to her profession.
4 posted on 03/18/2002 9:21:47 AM PST by The Old Hoosier
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To: white trash redneck
Minneapolis.... lowering the standards to allow for "political correctness".

at least that's what I read...

5 posted on 03/18/2002 9:22:11 AM PST by phasma proeliator
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To: white trash redneck
give them some cheese to go along with the whine.
6 posted on 03/18/2002 9:24:20 AM PST by camle
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To: white trash redneck
Lt. Brenda Berkman is a member of the New York City Fire Department. She was not among the 343 firemen who died on Sept. 11, but she wants the world to know she's a victim anyway.

Fire the bitch!
7 posted on 03/18/2002 9:24:41 AM PST by balrog666
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: white trash redneck
9/11 showed the world that you need brute strength to carry a hundred pounds of equipment,up 110 stories-with no excuses or special exemptions. You need brute strength to lift heavy pieces of steel, searching for victims- with no excuses or special exemptions. Excuses and special exemptions on physical fitness requirements, cost lives.
9 posted on 03/18/2002 9:28:19 AM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: phasma proeliator
"Minneapolis . . . lowering the standards"

That's how it looks to me - looks like a quota job all the way.
10 posted on 03/18/2002 9:29:08 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: white trash redneck
This has GOT to be the sorry apex of feminism -- complaining because your opportunities to die are fewer than those of men in your profession. The feminist agenda, once nobly-intended, has become sheer, unmitigated insanity.
12 posted on 03/18/2002 9:30:00 AM PST by JennysCool
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To: white trash redneck
Blah blah blah feminist claptrap their called firemen outside the media for a reason.
13 posted on 03/18/2002 9:30:58 AM PST by weikel
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To: innocentbystander
I'm 6'3" and weigh 220 pounds. If I'm unconscious in a burning building I would like the firefighter tasked to save my life to be able to lift me, or at least to be able to drag me.

If I die because that firefighter isn't able to meet the physical demand of carrying my body, the lawsuit filed by my survivors will be breathtaking. But at least my death will be politically correct.

14 posted on 03/18/2002 9:32:31 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg
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To: white trash redneck
Was there anything stopping her or other women from immediately volunteering when the planes hit ? I thought I remember that some firefighters were off duty when they reported.
15 posted on 03/18/2002 9:33:07 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: Steve_Seattle
"lowering the standards"

and I could/should have added "and putting lives in danger at the same time"....

16 posted on 03/18/2002 9:33:10 AM PST by phasma proeliator
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To: phasma proeliator
I'm a fire inspector and have seen a few of the women firefighters, they were in excellent shape.

I say never lower the physical standards, but if the women pass, they should be able to join.

The bottom line why the NYFD has so few women is they never lowered the standards. Those other cities have.

17 posted on 03/18/2002 9:33:54 AM PST by Rome2000
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To: white trash redneck
We could always apply the same PC tactic thats now used when referring to America's wars - simply begin referring to "the men and women who died" when referring to the firefighters who were killed on 9/11.
18 posted on 03/18/2002 9:35:01 AM PST by skeeter
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Colonel_Flagg
"I'm 6'3" and weigh 220 pounds. If I'm unconscious in a burning building I would like the firefighter tasked to save my life to be able to lift me, or at least to be able to drag me. If I die because that firefighter isn't able to meet the physical demand of carrying my body, the lawsuit filed by my survivors will be breathtaking. But at least my death will be politically correct."

6'2" 240 - and what you said... NO SH*T!

20 posted on 03/18/2002 9:36:10 AM PST by phasma proeliator
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To: white trash redneck
Well it took a while, but the P/C nuts have surfaced again. If women aren`t strong enough to do the job, hire them anyway. Now you put more people at risk of death or injury, but that`s OK because you have bowed to the P/C Police.
21 posted on 03/18/2002 9:37:16 AM PST by vladog
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To: Wild Irish Rogue;innocentbystander
Great observations.

If you're in a burning building would you prefer a.)a man that can throw you over his shoulder and run out of a builing or b.) a hundred thirty pound woman that would have to drag you out by your feet?
22 posted on 03/18/2002 9:38:18 AM PST by constitutiongirl
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To: Rome2000
I agree... if a woman can pass the test - then she can make it on the dept... but the vast majority of women can't pass - unless the test is "adjusted" which is dangerous,negligent, and provides grounds for a nice wrongfull death suit - IMHO.
23 posted on 03/18/2002 9:38:43 AM PST by phasma proeliator
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To: white trash redneck
Nothing against the girls, but my experience with a female firefighter(Volunteer) just about got me killed. She wasn't the petite sort, but the academy loosened the rules a bit to get her passed, seeing she was the first female member in a town with 300 volunteers.

She couldn't handle an inch and a half line by herself, and would reach for the booster line (most firefighters know what crap a booster is)

As one of the few able to respond to daytime calls it wasn't unusual to roll up with only two or three on the truck. Anyway we rolled up to a garage fully involved and guess what she had in her hands?.......then the gasoline cans blew.

24 posted on 03/18/2002 9:38:58 AM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: white trash redneck
Lt. Brenda Berkman is a member of the New York City Fire Department. She was not among the 343 firemen who died on Sept. 11, but she wants the world to know she's a victim anyway.

My only question is: Why is this newsworthy?

25 posted on 03/18/2002 9:39:17 AM PST by Mojo-jo-jo
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To: white trash redneck
Face it ladies your an anomally and all the feminism in the world won't change that... I am glad you do what you do, but you won't change the facts.
26 posted on 03/18/2002 9:41:22 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Rome2000
I recently dated a young woman who aspires to be a firefighter. She has a chronic knee problem, and, while stronger than many women, she's not close to being as strong as I am, and I'm not sure _I_ could qualify to do this work. Incidentally, she says most firemen are Democrats. I was flabbergasted. Is that true? I didn't argue with her because for all I knew she was right. Maybe she's thinking of Fairfield County, Connecticut firefighters(that's where she lives). Anybody have figures on this?
27 posted on 03/18/2002 9:43:12 AM PST by TrappedInLiberalHell
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To: balrog666
Lt. Brenda Berkman is a member of the New York City Fire Department. She was not among the 343 firemen who died on Sept. 11, but she wants the world to know she's a victim anyway.

You know, Brenda does inadvertently bring up a good question. How come there wasn't a single female firefighter who died? Seems like a little discrimination happened somewhere. Perhaps conveniently self-directed?

Since this whining little &*$@ brought this up - I would like to know how many female FDNY showed up at the scene - and how many volunteered to go up those smoldering stairs.

28 posted on 03/18/2002 9:44:48 AM PST by ctonious
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To: constitutiongirl
or b.) a hundred thirty pound woman that would have to drag you out by your feet?

Depends. Do you have a picture ?

29 posted on 03/18/2002 9:46:45 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: phasma proeliator
I'd comment about women as police officers, but far be it from me to stir the #&*t and create a mega-thread...... 8~)
30 posted on 03/18/2002 9:46:52 AM PST by tracer
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To: phasma proeliator
I'd comment about women as police officers, but far be it from me to stir the #&*t and create a mega-thread...... 8~)
31 posted on 03/18/2002 9:47:22 AM PST by tracer
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To: white trash redneck
I have a close personal friend who is a woman EMT in South Florida.
She told me all about going through firefighter school, and she freely admitted that she never could have made it if men and women had to pass the same physical tests.
These were practical tests, like dragging a hose some distance, say 150 feet, then turning it on and controlling it accurately, all within a specified time limit.
She's a healthy fair-sized woman, but she told me that even the scrawniest guy in her class could easily outdo any of the women.
BTW, she took the training only because firefighter-trained EMT's get paid more in Collier County, even if they're never going to fight a fire.
32 posted on 03/18/2002 9:48:18 AM PST by Redbob
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To: white trash redneck
Gandy (NOW)and Schmeal (Feminist Majority) are trying to get their greedy and greasy little paws on the 9/11 Federal Disaster Fund. Their own coffers are almost empty. Should they succeed, bet the money will go to the democratic party. The dems are all for it (of course) and their rag papers provide the cover, as above. I say our money must go to our victims, not to a bunch of partial-birth sadomaso lesbos.
33 posted on 03/18/2002 9:48:30 AM PST by Pipers
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To: white trash redneck
Gandy (NOW)and Schmeal (Feminist Majority) are trying to get their greedy and greasy little paws on the 9/11 Federal Disaster Fund. Their own coffers are almost empty. Should they succeed, bet the money will go to the democratic party. The dems are all for it (of course) and their rag papers provide the cover, as above. I say our money must go to our victims, not to a bunch of partial-birth sadomaso lesbos.
34 posted on 03/18/2002 9:49:09 AM PST by Pipers
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To: TrappedInLiberalHell
First of all most CT'ers are Rats. Secondly the FD survives by increased spending and taxes. The FD is a natural source of Rat votes.
35 posted on 03/18/2002 9:49:20 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
Maybe I could get you a job as their 'training dummy.':) Just imagine being thrown around by women all day long.
36 posted on 03/18/2002 9:51:48 AM PST by constitutiongirl
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To: The Old Hoosier
''There were all sorts of stories of how men did this, men did that, how all the firefighters killed were men,'' she said. ''Somehow that's being used to prove there shouldn't be women firefighters. But if this happened almost anywhere else, there might have been 20 or 30 women firefighters killed.''

So we're upset that we didn't lose more women? I bet that sentence sounded a whole lot better in her head than it did when it came out.

37 posted on 03/18/2002 9:52:44 AM PST by Cable225
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To: ctonious
Since this whining little &*$@ brought this up - I would like to know how many female FDNY showed up at the scene - and how many volunteered to go up those smoldering stairs

Statistically there should have been at least one.

343 dead times .3% = 1.03.

38 posted on 03/18/2002 9:52:47 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
I suppose that makes sense. It just seems that guys who put their lives on the line like that would be grounded in common sense more than most, and realize the lunacy of the left. I wonder if they vote Democrat at the local level and Republican at the national level (i.e. for Bush vs. Gore).
39 posted on 03/18/2002 9:53:09 AM PST by TrappedInLiberalHell
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To: VRWC_minion
In the two days immediately following the attack I personally saw a number of women working in/at/near GZ. Most were nurses who were manning a hasty-triage unit in the ruins of a Burger King right on the edge of the former footprint of the towers (SW corner of Church and Liberty). This location is only thirty yards from One Liberty, the office tower that was expected to collapse. If it had gone I don't think that anyone working that BK location would have survived. During our time there the warning horns that were meant to let people know that One Liberty was coming down blew twice. After each false, but brutally frightening warning these women went back to work.

There were also other women on the periphery who were busy distributing water and masks. Further north (about four blocks) there were quite a few women doing what they could.

I did see only one woman volunteer working the pile. I also saw a handful of female uniform personnel. I know of a female college student from the VFD in my town who spent three days in the absolute hell that was the pile and the pit.

Women were there. But, at least on the part of the volunteers, the overwhelming demographic was white male.

40 posted on 03/18/2002 9:55:16 AM PST by wtc911
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To: constitutiongirl
Maybe I could get you a job as their 'training dummy.':) Just imagine being thrown around by women all day long.

I'll do the CPR training but I draw the line at getting thrown around.

41 posted on 03/18/2002 9:56:44 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: white trash redneck
Lt. Berkman is a good example of why some women should not be firefighters. She is more interested in whining and victimhood than service and rescue. Whining and complaining never helped a fire victim or firefighter stay alive. Courage, training, teamwork, intelligence, strength and resolve have. She should put her abilities to better use.
42 posted on 03/18/2002 9:57:33 AM PST by Navy Patriot
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To: wtc911
Women were there. But, at least on the part of the volunteers, the overwhelming demographic was white male.

Maybe that's because men don't have to toss away their shoes like women did (can't run in heels). Dangerous working in those areas without foot protection. Just a half-*ssed theory.

43 posted on 03/18/2002 9:58:05 AM PST by TrappedInLiberalHell
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To: skeeter
We could always apply the same PC tactic thats now used when referring to America's wars - simply begin referring to "the men and women who died" when referring to the firefighters who were killed on 9/11

That expression has always stuck in my craw, too. Though I am sure that there have been Army nurses killed in the World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam, keep in mind that the numbers don't even begin to come close to the number of men killed, the women went in as volunteers (they were not drafted), and they went in as officers. To put imply some sort of equality between the young men killed and the young women killed in wartime is obscene.

44 posted on 03/18/2002 9:59:11 AM PST by white trash redneck
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To: white trash redneck
''What was most hurtful was to be so invisible at the funerals and memorial services,'' said Berkman, who heads the small women firefighters union. ''The officials giving the eulogies would talk about 'firemen,' the 'brothers,' the 'men.' After 20 years, it was tough to take.''

What kind of sick person laments being invisible at someone else's funeral? I'll tell you what's tough to take after 20 years, Mizz Berkman: your bitching. That's right, it's been 20 years since you so "bravely" fought your battle, and undoubtedly received all sorts of earnest congratulations for succeeding in a "man's world". Let it go you whining shrew. Men are dead. You could do them the highest honor by shutting your fricking pie-hole.

45 posted on 03/18/2002 9:59:22 AM PST by Mr. Bird
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To: wtc911
In the two days immediately following the attack

I wonder why none in the first few hours. Statistically there should have been several there. Why didn't they enter the building ?

46 posted on 03/18/2002 9:59:28 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: white trash redneck
I believe these female firefighters secretly wish that at least one of their own had been killed that day. It would have made great PR. She would have had more posthumous fame than all of the dead male firefighters combined. That's what they're really whining about, and it makes me sick.
47 posted on 03/18/2002 9:59:29 AM PST by arm958
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To: wtc911
Women were there. But, at least on the part of the volunteers, the overwhelming demographic was white male.

That fact is racist. Therefore, Reality itself should be sued for civil rights infractions.

48 posted on 03/18/2002 9:59:34 AM PST by ctonious
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To: tracer
"I'd comment about women as police officers, but far be it from me to stir the #&*t and create a mega-thread...... 8~)"

OH MAN - Now you've done it.... I was going to go there but thought far be it from me either.

49 posted on 03/18/2002 10:00:42 AM PST by phasma proeliator
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To: white trash redneck
The assistant chief in Minneapolis, Ulie Seal, said a key step was developing a physical test that reflected on-the-job demands, not just brute strength.

If you live in a wooden building in Minneapolis, lose weight now!

50 posted on 03/18/2002 10:00:45 AM PST by dead
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