Posted on 04/05/2002 8:28:06 AM PST by samtheman
I don't see the significance of this statement. Who is to say if the modern Israelis are related to the Israelites in any way but religion (and that has changed considerably). Even if all the myths are taken at face value the nation of Israel existed for only a very few centuries and that was about 3000 years ago.
This article (which gets posted about once a month) is an historical mishmash of bits and pieces taken out of context to prove a point the author wishes were true.
To counter this, the idea of a Palestinian "nation" works as an argument, ex post facto, to explain that a discrete "nation" was affected, and therefore the fact that Jews left and were kicked out of Egypt, Libya, Jordan, etc. is argued as irrelevant.
The Palestinian Charter and other documents reflect this disturbance in pan-Arabism (now with a religious underpinning). They protest "too much" that there is a Palestinian identity, then go on to say in the future they will merge into a pan-Arab entity of some sort, acknowledging the weakness of the identity argument in itself.
The identity is fed by other things too. A common and long contrary experience with Israel, the denial of citizenship of "Palestinians" in countires like Lebanon, Syria, etc., and the use and management of their plight by various Arab states for redirecting internal dissent and pressures. Creating "Palestinians" is also profitable for UN doles and subsidies from other nations - if they decline the identity, the funds lessen. (Just like if they stop calling cities "refugee camps" funds lessen.) A newer force in propelling the identity is Western media and opinion whom are receptive to European ideas of discrete nations, an idea which has been accepted more and more in the "Arab nation" which absorbs western intellectual ideas and whims more and more - the latest being post-modernism and, interestingly, its obsession with identity.
It's all a goof complicated with numerous interests - the Jordanians know the identity is a goof - but they don't want "Palestine" back.
yes and no. some arabs don't want it all, just the parts they have been kicked out of.
20% of modern Israelis aren't Jewish. Many Israelis are from Russia, America, elsewhere, and perhaps distantly related to the tibe of Judah; its been a long time since Rome. The point is the origin of the term Palestine.
The point of the article is that the land never belonged to anyone called "Palestinian" and therefore was open to settlement by the Jews.
____________________
Correct! You are finally beginning to get it!
They are Arab opportunists from adjoing Arab lands--for the most part, they have no equitable, legal or historical claim to any of the land. Their ancestorial claim advanced by Abas is a fraud--the original Palestinians were Greek and are long gone and unreleated to the modern contestants who have appropriated their name.
"Who is to say if the modern Israelis are related to the Israelites in any way but religion (and that has changed considerably)." Modern DNA evidence is sufficient to convince any trier of fact.
"Even if all the myths are taken at face value the nation of Israel existed for only a very few centuries and that was about 3000 years ago." The author here is not up to date on the historical evidence which has advanced significantly over the last several years--at this point, the evidence supports the biblical date of Exodus at 1461 BC. So your knowledge of the history is off a little also--Israel was in the land from 1420 to 176 AD--1600 years; maybe less 70 years of the Babylonian captivity. Certainly if nationhood in the land resolves the issue, the Palestinians have no claim not dwarfed by Israel.
There has been continuous human habitation for 480,000 years.(Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon and Homo Sapien). There is evidence of Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon coexistence.
10,000 BC: first permanent settlements in Israel
7,000 BC: walls of Jericho built
1950 BC: Abraham leaves Ur (Iraq)for Canaan.
1600 BC: Hebrews move to Egypt voluntarily abandoning the Holyland.
1486 BC: Canaanite army defeated at Megiddo by Egyptian Pharaoh Thutmose, consolidating Egyptian rule over Canaan
1300 BC: Moses leads the Jews out of Egypt
1200 BC: Philistines arrive by ship and give the name "Palestine" to the area; Jews start to arrive in Land of Israel
990 BC: Jerusalem captured by King David and Israel unified as one nation
950 BC: First Temple built by King Solomon forcing Hebrew unity by controlling the Ark of the Covenant
928 BC: After a fight over taxation, Israel splits into two nations: "Judah" in the south and "Israel" in the north
824 BC: Assyria conquers Palestine
710 BD Assyria conquers Israel
586 BC: Babylon conquers Judah.
597 BC: Babylonians send army to put down a rebellion and take prominent Jews into exile
586 BC: Babylonians arrive to put down another rebellion, destroy the First Temple, and remove more Jews into exile
539 BC: Babylonians defeated by Persians
538 BC: Cyrus the Great of Persia allows the Jews to return to Israel and rebuild temple in return for loyalty oath to Persia
515 BC: Second Temple built
332 BC: Alexander the Great of Macedonia conquers Persia and takes over their empire, including Palestine; Hellenization of Israel begins
170-164 BC: Maccabee revolt against forced Hellenization; Jewish independence
63 BC: Roman legions, under General Pompey, conquer Jerusalem
37 BC: Herod the Great installed by Romans as vassal king
4 BC: Jesus born
AD 30: Jesus crucified
AD 66-70: Jewish revolt, war with Romans, destruction of Jerusalem and Second Temple
AD 73: Masada falls ending control of a terorist organization the Sicarii. Evidence exists that the Sicarii, massacred 25 men women and childred who occupied Masada before they siezed it in AD 71
AD 130-2: Hadrian outlaws circumcision and plans to rebuild Jerusalem as a pagan city
AD 132-135. Bar Kochba rebellion. Jews crushed by Romans, sold into slavery, and driven into exile (the Diaspora). Jerusalem is rebuilt as Aelia Capitolina.
AD 200-215: Mishnah edited in Israel by Rabbi Ha Nasi „h AD 313: Roman emperor Constantine converts to Christianity, grants freedom of worship to Christians throughout Empire
AD 395: Rome splits into western and eastern (Byzantium) empires
AD 638: Omar defeats the Byzantine army at the Yarmuk River (in Syria); Muslims rule Palestine
AD 1009: Caliph El-Hakim destroys Holy Sepulchre
AD 1071: Seljuk Turks forbid Christians to enter Jerusalem
AD 1095: Pope Urban II launches Crusades
AD 1099: Crusaders take Jerusalem
AD 1187: Saladin retakes Jerusalem
AD 1188-92: Third Crusade under Richard I the Lionheart fails to retake Jerusalem but wins access for pilgrims.
AD 1400: Israel under Mameluke rule from Egypt;
AD 1516: Mamelukes defeated by Ottoman empire
AD 1537: Suleyman the Magnificent orders new walls and gates built around Jerusalem
AD 1896: Theodor Herzl publishes Der Judenstat, which leads to formation of the World Zionist Congress
1917: British General Allenby captures Jerusalem from the Turks.
1923: British split off 70% of Palestine and hand it over to Emir Abdullah as "Jordan"
November 29, 1947: United Nations votes for the partition of the remainder of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem a neutral international city.
May 14, 1948: State of Israel declared.
Gee, I should have written 3463 instead of "about 3000". You sound like Bishop Usher. It pretty well depends on whose evidence you prefer to believe. I accepted the Exodus story for the sake of argument but if you wish to get into that we'll have to open a new thread. The evidence I read calls the Exodus story a folk memory of the Hyksos expulsion. It is quite clear (in the evidence I prefer to trust) that the Exodus could not have occurred as written many centuries after the facts in the Torah.
Yes, a very interesting study, recently published. I'll wait for some replications.
I'm not sure what "in the land" is supposed to mean but in all those years except a very few hundred the land was owned by Egypt, Persia, Greece, or Rome with the Hittites and Assyrians coming in for briefer shares. By the way, all this marvelous evidence you mention has yet to turn up any mention of David, Solomon or the early Biblical kings, although there is plenty of evidence for somewhat later kings and contemporary kings of neighboring states. There is almost no evidence for Israel in this early period--just one mention on an Egyptian stele, and that mention does not include the heiroglyph for "state" indicating that Israel at this time was a nomadic tribal group.
Or did I get off the subject?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.