Celibacy of the priesthood is a church strength, not a liability

Mpls (red) Star Tribune ^ | 4/3/02 | Katherine Kersten

[Valin]

In the wake of the sex abuse scandal among Catholic priests, some Americans are calling for an end to the celibate priesthood. They regard celibacy as self-evidently the source of the problem.

This is not surprising. In our sex-drenched culture, celibacy is a deeply alien notion. But the church has viewed celibacy as important to priesthood for at least 1,000 years. In the current rush to judgment, few have paused to ask why.

[Valin]

And here's the Op-ed from 4/6/02 edition

The myth of priestly celibacy

Reading Katherine Kersten's April 3 Commentary article regarding her expectation of priests, I find myself drowning in the hypocrisy of the myth of priestly celibacy. Celibacy exists in the sense of bachelorhood, of course, in the church. But celibacy as chastity . . . as being saints like Francis and angels like Mother Teresa? I don't think so!

Kersten states that "the church has viewed celibacy as important to priesthood for at least 1,000 years." Sure, and lying about it has been around all that time too. Have you ever read Chaucer? Do you know about Martin Luther?

Kersten, dear readers, priests: Consider how you'd feel if you were a parent, who, being saturated with images and stories about the pervasive problem of priestly sexual abuse of children, would have to send a 7-year-old to talk alone to a priest, knowing that he or she will be expected to talk about any (natural) erotic feelings or behaviors, and have to say they're sorry when they're not, and have to promise to try and never do it again (which they don't mean).

And maybe these parents know, but are not acknowledging, that the child has seen these sickening and frightening television stories, or heard them from other kids. And maybe the kid is terrified, or grossed out, and the parents feel sick inside when they "make" the kid go do this.

Or consider the teenage boy who has read the papers, seen on TV the stories of "nice guy priests" who rape boys, and heard about parents who won't believe the victims.
Then, too, imagine how his mom and dad might feel about his discussing masturbation or other sexual matters while alone in the confessional with this man. Also, don't forget that girls are victims of priests too.

Maybe Kersten and I are children of the '60s, and believe that the appearance of love solves everything. Her commentary strikes me as being a lot like the summer of love, when we wore flowers and tossed balloons and dope was destroying minds all around us, but we chanted and danced and pretended that everything was groovy . . . . One can hope that more responsible people will work to make our society and the church be a sanctuary for children -- and, oh yes, women and homosexuals too.

Perhaps there will eventually be a rite of confession for people who will not address evil when it's in front of their faces.

-- Nancy Coleman, St. Louis Park. Retired therapist.

© Copyright 2002 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Kersten states that "the church has viewed celibacy as important to priesthood for at least 1,000 years." Sure, and lying about it has been around all that time too. Have you ever read Chaucer? Do you know about Martin Luther?

As a matter of fact we do know about Luther. We also know about Melchisedech. Elias, John the Baptist, Paul, Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary and many others.

Her commentary strikes me as being a lot like the summer of love, when we wore flowers and tossed balloons and dope was destroying minds all around us, but we chanted and danced and pretended that everything was groovy . . . .

Sounds like Nancy did more than dope.

[IncredibleHulk]

It has taken the Church a 1000 years to think up all that bunk Kirsten has just blessed us with but the truth is far more simple. The priesthood was pasted from father to son for centuries and they built up large holdings. The more successful families collected tithes and offerings from large areas and became enormously wealthy. They had so much money and power that they could tell the Pope where to go and make it stick. To get all the money and regain central power, families were outlawed and the Church appointed priests to the various posts rather than have family holdings.

It was just a greedy power grab.

[RobbyS]

Celibacy for a priest is like a fifth leg on a horse. Everyone seems to have forgotten the command to "Go forth and multiply"

This in a country where a white, middle-class mother with four or five children is regarded as a freak?

[harpo11]

Things I think about if a Priest is allowed to marry:

a). What if he has marital problems that lead to divorce?

Will the Church be asked to pay alimony and child support?

b). What if their children get into all sorts of trouble with the law?

Will the Church be asked to pay for defense costs?

c). Tuition, medical, dental, housing, clothing, cars, insurance, will the Church be asked to fund?

[Valin]

It was just a greedy power grab.

Riiight < /sarcasm>

[RobbyS]

To get all the money and regain central power, families were outlawed and the Church appointed priests to the various posts rather than have family holdings. It was just a greedy power grab.

But of COURSE it was ;-]. The Church SHOULD be a monopoly of the landed nobility and/or its lapdog. But, wait, wasn't that once cause of the French Revolution?

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Another linguistic literalist picking and choosing like they're at a smorgasbord. Seems you've forgotten Matthew 19:12, 26-29; 1 Corinthians 7:8, 32-38. By the way, which Commandment is "Go forth and multiply?" I'll bet you're an admirer of Shawn Kemp, aren't you?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I'm glad to see that Nancy is a RETIRED therapist. I hope she uses her retirement to further her own spiritual and intellectual growth.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Amongst other things, familiarize yourself with Canon XXXIII of the Council of Elvira, 295-302 AD. I'll bet you used to sleep a lot in school, didn't you? Maybe you went to one of those alternative joints that let you determine your own curriculum.

[dighton]

IMHO, Katherine Kersten makes a fine, clear case for priestly celibacy.

[kiryandil]

I feel sorry for the Church. They're right in the crosshairs of the Left Wing.

Homo priests bad, homo boy scout leaders good

The dexterity needed by the Left Wing for this hit is astonishing. Brain surgeons should take notes.

[Valin]

Flag

[Myrddin]

I like the LDS church approach to the priesthood. They call a Bishop to serve for 5 years. The man selected is always married, usually has children and has a full time job to support his family. His responsibilities are similar to what is expected of a typical priest in a Roman Catholic parish. It typically adds another 30 to 40 hours a week of meetings to carry out the responsibility. That's on top of his full time employment. An LDS Bishop understands the realities of running a household, caring for wife and children and dealing with a real world job. It makes for a uniquely knowledgeable religious counselor. The typical 5 year service also helps in the knowledge that the burden won't be a perpetual one. One of my bishops was also employed by my company, so I ran into him on a regular basis in the cafeteria.

While the LDS approach produces some very fine bishops, there are still a few cases every year of the same types of problems currently faced by the Roman Catholic church. Allowing priests to marry and have families wouldn't be a detriment in my view. It might actually attract more men into the priesthood.

[jjhunsecker]

WHERE THE BLOODY HELL IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT ANYONE, A CLERIC, PRIEST OR THE APOSTLES SHALL BE CELIBANT? THAT IS SOME IDIOTIC DICTUM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. ALTHOUGH THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO STOP SOME POPES, LIKE ALEXANDER BORGIA, FROM PROCREATION. THE MOST LOGICAL THING TO DO WOULD BE TO MAKE CELIBANCY AN OPTION, THAT WAY A CHOICE COULD BE MADE FOR THE INDIVIDUAL ON HOW TO BEST SERVE GOD. BUT THEN THAT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE!!!!!!

[CyberAnt]

When Jesus walked on the earth, HE sent out the disciples two by two. Why? Because there is power in agreement.

Since God said, "it is not good for man to be alone".

I think God knows best. Priests should be allowed to marry.

[Rule of Law]

As a matter of fact we do know about Luther. We also know about Melchisedech. Elias, John the Baptist, Paul, Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary and many others.

Certainly there is no biblical requirement for priests to be celibate. Saint Peter was married.

But I'm not Catholic so I don't really care if they want to have celibacy as a requirement.

Of course the attack is not really on celibacy. That's just phase 1. Most of these bad priests (and in spite of the media hysteria, there haven't been all that many)have been homosexual. If the Catholic Church removes the celibacy requirements, the next step will be to say that the Church should allow priests to enter into homosexual "marriages".

[yooper]

"Homo priests bad, homo boy scout leaders good"

Well, there's a difference here. Homo boy scout leaders gravitate to the boy scouts because they're pedophile homos and that's where the boys are. Priests who are involved in this present scandal (which is to say not the vast majority of priests) prey on little boys because that's what they have access to. If there were such a thing as altar girls they would be targets too.

The issue of celibacy is a difficult one. One thing people have to remember is that priests are human beings just like the rest of us and as such are subjected to the same biological inclinations as we all are. Today's priests grew up in the same setting we did, with rampant and easily obtainable pornography and sex fired at them 24/7 from the TV set. They did not grow up in some medieval setting where they were trained as youngsters to be celibate. Are we to expect today's priest to suddenly change and shrug off all of his natural inclinations when he dons the mantle? In my opinion, this is expecting too much from today's young man who aspires to the priesthood.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm married to one. In my opinion, priests should be allowed to marry; at least then when a priest is conducting pre-marital councilling (which I was compelled to attend in order to be married in the church), he would know something about the subject he was lecturing on......

[ipatent]

I grew up as a Catholic. My family is still Catholic. However, they need to let married men be priests, and for priests to get married. I had a friend who was at one of the top seminaries in Italy. Homosexuality was rampant.

I'd rather deal with a priest who has marital problems than one who is a sick hypocritical queer or child molester.

I'm really sorry if I've offended, but this topic sets me off.

[yooper]

I hear you. Come to think of it, one of the questions the priest asked me during the pre-marital councilling I alluded to earlier was "Have you ever had any homosexual thoughts." I'm not kidding; he really did. Of course I told him "none of your damn business", and things kinda went downhill after that, and after I got a kick in the shins from my betrothed under the table, but we wound up getting married in the Catholic church by a Deacon and the minister from my Methodist church. That's right, the priest allowed a bi-denominational service!

The kicker to all of this is that this priest later fell in love with a woman in the church. He resigned from the priesthood in order to marry her, something which I hugely respected.....

[redhead]

"Well, there's a difference here. Homo boy scout leaders gravitate to the boy scouts because they're pedophile homos and that's where the boys are. Priests who are involved in this present scandal (which is to say not the vast majority of priests) prey on little boys because that's what they have access to. If there were such a thing as altar girls they would be targets too.

A vast majority of the priests involved have chosen to assault teenaged boys. The pedophiles are a very small percentage of the total.

There ARE altar girls in many liberal parishes. It doesn't have even the slightest bearing on sexual assaults on teenaged boys, some as old as 16.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

*ahem* In those times it was very dangerous to travel, hence the necessity of men traveling in pairs or more. It was too dangerous for women to travel much at all.

Watch out, with the logic you used someone could make a case for gay marriage.

[Joshua]

". Everyone seems to have forgotten the command to "Go forth and multiply" "

"Celibacy is a heroic sacrifice for a greater good, and the church must do a much better job of explaining this to young men. "

And let us not forget this one: Go and learn what this means "I desire mercy not sacrifice" (Matt 9:13)

[Joshua]

"Things I think about if a Priest is allowed to marry: a). What if he has marital problems that lead to divorce? Will the Church be asked to pay alimony and child support? b). What if their children get into all sorts of trouble with the law? Will the Church be asked to pay for defense costs? c). Tuition, medical, dental, housing, clothing, cars, insurance, will the Church be asked to fund? "

I'm with you. I think it would be cost effective to just pay lawyer and court costs on all the abuse cases that are beginning to come forward. (/sarcasm)

[DennisR]

The New Testament says this:

1 Tim 4:1-3--

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (NKJ)"

So to teach abstention from marriage is a doctrine of demons. There are other places in the New Testament that discuss remaining single, but it is voluntary, not mandatory. And it should be this way with the Catholic Church, also.

[razorbak]

1Tim.3:1 This [is] a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having [his] children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the [same] condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

[FITZ]

Married priests would be a different set of potential problems. Adultery, divorce ---and you're right ---kids could be a problem. I once knew a daughter of a Lutheran minister who hated growing up in a fishbowl ---she said they had to sit in the front and the parishioners would be horrified when they started fighting in church as little kids. She told us that she believed ministers shouldn't have children because it wasn't fair to the children to make them be some kind of "example" for others to watch.

[FITZ]

It could be like the Eastern Orthodox do it ---they let married men become priests but priests don't marry ---so you don't have the problem of them "datings" etc. Or else married deacons could take on more duties but not have quite the status of priests. Either way ---married priests isn't the only answer ---the main thing is to get the homosexuals out. If they're homosexual but celibate then they could stay.

[IncredibleHulk]

I'll bet you used to sleep a lot in school, didn't you? Maybe you went to one of those alternative joints that let you determine your own curriculum.

Actually, I went to one of those joints where they fired our teacher for making all of us non-catholics recite the Lords Prayer before we could eat our lunch. And as a member of Mensa, I can probably sleep through any class and learn more real knowledge than you can awake.

[JessicaDragonet]

According to the Bible...celibacy is a gift. To make it a prerequisite to the priesthood is not only unbiblical...but against nature itself. The failure of this rule has been an open secret for centuries. If the church has the authority to make rules....they also have the authority to change them.

[sailor4321]

Nancy is one sick puppy! She may have been a flower child --- her bitterness sounds like something that has germinated in the disappointment which follows shallow ideals. Given the rigor of her thinking, I doubt that Kerstein was anybody's "flower child"...

[sailor4321]

Gosh! They must have been pretty stupid all these centuries, having to deal with priests (even a Pope or two) who weren't up to celibacy, trying to fight human nature by insisting this was the ideal way for priests to carry out their role. St. Benedict even insisted on celibacy in his monasteries in the 4th century! What an indiot, huh?

[history_matters]

And as a member of Mensa, I can probably sleep through any class and learn more real knowledge than you can awake.

God bless your pointed little head.

[history_matters]

I wish you people could figure this out: celibacy is the normal discipline of the Latin Rite, it is not a matter of doctrine -- and dispensation from celibacy is granted to married Lutheran and Episcopalian ministers who become Catholic priests. Married men can be ordained to the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church does not require celibacy of anyone; you can choose to be married and serve Christ in a hundred different ways apart from those that require the discipline of celibacy. The discipline of being a monk, nun, or a regular Latin rite priest means you choose to be a eunuch for Christ's sake. There are hundreds of ways to serve God in the Catholic Church. Our disciplines are not unbiblical doctrines of demons.

[Codie]

If anyone else has pointed out the fact that celibacy is indeed a choice I haven't seen it.Kudos for you! I don't understand why people have a problem with this.

[Orual]

The priest is to follow Christ's example in every aspect of his life, making a total gift of his life and love to all around him.

What those who advocate that priests should marry always forget is that a priest is different from the rest of us and is held to a much higher standard. The priest is married to the Church - one priest once described his Breviary as his wife. I cannot believe that the priests who make the headlines read their Breviaries every day as they are required to - those beautiful daily prayers would have strengthened them and kept their minds on their vows and Holy Orders.

Putting aside the fact that a priest has not the time nor the finances to support a wife and children and that such a relationship would be doomed from the start, a priest is bound by Canon Law to be a member of a Community of priests, whether it is as a Franciscan or a Dominican or any number of other Priestly Societies. He must live and pray with them, again gaining strength and support from his brother priests.

Celibacy is a God-given grace and cannot be measured within the self-gratification norms of our "present sex-drenched culture", as Kersten describes it so perfectly. Those who argue for marriage for priests simply do not understand the sanctity and holiness of the vocation, and the duties that attend to it.

[JessicaDragonet]

Hey..if your happy then I'm happy.

[born yesterday]

Celibate homosexuals would not work. Homosexuality remains a death loving abberation. What if the Church's authoritative priesthood as in the Roman Catholic world displayed approval of homosexuality. This would display an ugly role modeling.

[FITZ]

I think you're probably right. I'm not sure exactly what the definition of homosexual is. If some one never committed a gay act then probably they aren't one.

[dubyas_vision]

Allowing priests to marry and have families wouldn't be a detriment in my view. It might actually attract more men into the priesthood.

The number of young men coming forward for the priesthood has been rising, not falling, since 1978. That year there were fewer than 70,000 seminarians worldwide. Today there are about 110,000 - a massive increase.

Recruitment to the priesthood and celibacy do not appear to be linked. In the Church of Scotland, where there is no celibacy rule, the number of applicants to the ministry dropped by 70% between 1992 and 1999.

Source

[Mfkmmof4]

Personally I think the lack of vocations is because more and more being a religious is not different from everyday life. Being a religious is about sacrifices. What is the point of being a religious if it is the same life as being a lay person???

[sinkspur]

Those who argue for marriage for priests simply do not understand the sanctity and holiness of the vocation, and the duties that attend to it.

We are ALL called to sanctity and holiness, Orual, not just priests and those in orders.

Your implication seems to be that celibacy is the only way one can reach perfection.

Also, I sense a little "sex would sully" tone to your post, as if relations with a woman would somehow detract from the priesthood.

Putting aside the fact that a priest has not the time nor the finances to support a wife and children and that such a relationship would be doomed from the start,

Clearly not, as Eastern Rite and Lutheran and Episcopalian converts to the priesthood attest.

[sinkspur]

Recruitment to the priesthood and celibacy do not appear to be linked. In the Church of Scotland, where there is no celibacy rule, the number of applicants to the ministry dropped by 70% between 1992 and 1999.

How many men applied in 1992 and how many applied in 1999? Percentage figures, when dealing with small numbers to begin with, are misleading. Scotland's about the size of Dallas County, in Texas; in addition, what denomination is the Church of Scotland, or is it its own denomination?

Much of the increase in vocations (if, indeed there has been one) is in third-world countries, where the priesthood will provide a secure life and protection from starvation. In addition, there is still some prestige for the priesthood in these countries.

[flair2000]

I'm not Catholic, but I would like to chime in. Let's see what the Apostle Paul has to say about this in 1st Timothy.
3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Note that Paul doesn't say to not have more than one wife. He says you must be married to one wife to be a bishop in the church. Having a family and ruling a household is a requirement for church leadership. How can a man be tested to see if he can care for the Church if he doesn't even have a family to take care of? How can he be checked on to see if he is fit for the task?

[CyberAnt]

Well, GOD gave the example - He created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. If GOD meant' for man to serve in the church alone, why did he bother with Eve?? I have always thought all ministers of the Gospel should be married (by that I mean - anyone in authority over others in the church). And ... I don't mean to imply that single men and women cannot play a vital part - but the power of agreement between a man and his wife is supernatural.

[Titanites]

And as a member of Mensa, I can probably sleep through any class and learn more real knowledge than you can awake.

What a brilliant statement that was.

[pbear8]

Everyone seems to have forgotten the command to "Go forth and multiply"

No we haven't, we all learned the times table.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Paul wasn't married. He was a celibate. Should we exclude him and his teachings regarding the Christian faith? By your logic, he's not fit to be our leader.

[Orual]

Also, I sense a little "sex would sully" tone to your post, as if relations with a woman would somehow detract from the priesthood.

You suspect correctly.

As you noted, there are Orthodox Rites which allow marriage, if a priest wants to marry, he should join a rite that permits it. If the Novus Ordo permits converted married priests, then he should become a Novus Ordo priest. No problem there.