Cabinet to review patriarch posting

1 posted on 04/21/2002 8:37:30 PM PDT by Phil V.

To: x; 2witness; spoosman; ObjetD'art; Nachum; Galloway; Michael2001; The Documentary Lady; jmp702...

FYI

An astonishing display of ARROGANCE HUBRIS and PROVOCATIVE STUPIDITY

2 posted on 04/21/2002 8:41:18 PM PDT by Phil V.

Do we get to guess why?

3 posted on 04/21/2002 8:47:18 PM PDT by LarryLied

An astonishing display of ARROGANCE HUBRIS and PROVOCATIVE STUPIDITY

'To be formally appointed, Irineos needs the approval of Israel, Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority.' I guess you are speaking about the display of Arrogance Hubris and Provocative Stupidity by the government of Jordan, daring to interfere in a political appointment in a country over which they have no sovereignty.

4 posted on 04/21/2002 8:49:43 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla

If only a Southern Baptist could be appointed to this position, then Israel would get some respect.

How about a Greek with long experience in the Deep South, and who expects the Rapture?

5 posted on 04/21/2002 8:50:32 PM PDT by crystalk

Go for it Larry.

When Israel first flirted with a veto over Irineos certain leases from the Church to Israel suddenly came up for "review" if I recall correctly. Rather inconveniently, (for Israel at times) the Church OWNS much of Jerusalem.

6 posted on 04/21/2002 8:53:14 PM PDT by Phil V.

*Yesterday's decision by the government was apparently the result of a complaint to the police lodged by MK Uri Ariel (National Union) on Thursday, accusing Irineos of incitement to rebel, incitement to use terrorism, and incitement to murder.

The reason seems pretty clear, in the article.

7 posted on 04/21/2002 8:58:09 PM PDT by vance

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

' I guess you are speaking about the display of Arrogance Hubris and Provocative Stupidity by the government of Jordan, daring to interfere in a political appointment in a country over which they have no sovereignty.

I'm not sure why you characterise an ecclesiastical appointment as "political." As for Jordan's say in the matter, you should know that the responsibilities of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jersusalem extend to Christians beyond the borders of Israel.

8 posted on 04/21/2002 9:07:21 PM PDT by Romulus

I'm not sure why you characterise an ecclesiastical appointment as "political."

An appointment which must, under the law, be approved by a government, is by definition 'political'. This is not exactly rocket science.

9 posted on 04/21/2002 9:13:48 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla

The landholdings of the Orthodox Church are very much under threat. The Armenian Orthodox Church has already lost significant properties. If they sell, the Jewish Land Fund will give them a very good price. But then, the land is held for the exclusive use of the Jewish community. If they refuse to sell, then comes the expropriation order. The Palestinians on the West Bank have had a lot of that, except that they never got offered any fancy prices.

10 posted on 04/21/2002 9:13:57 PM PDT by BlackVeil

Money. Shocking. What took them so long to go after the land?

11 posted on 04/21/2002 9:21:00 PM PDT by LarryLied

To: Salvation,Patent;history_matters;neocon;Notwithstanding;

12 posted on 04/21/2002 9:28:31 PM PDT by LarryLied

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Thanks for reminding us all why Our President's push for Faith Based Partnerships is a snare for the unwary.

13 posted on 04/21/2002 9:35:24 PM PDT by Romulus

He would not be the first cleric in the Middle East to side with the Palestinian cause, which is a marxist movement. If he incites terrorism he is not being true to his faith.

14 posted on 04/21/2002 9:39:09 PM PDT by xvb

Thanks for reminding us all why Our President's push for Faith Based Partnerships is a snare for the unwary.

I agree with you here, it would be far better if the government would just stop pushing religion into the closet. As if singing Christmas carols in the public square was establishing a religion.

15 posted on 04/21/2002 9:40:43 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla

1. Countries buy or even take land for secuirty reasons all the time. I nthe US it is called Eminent Domain.
2. What of Jewish own land stolen at gunpoint by the Arabs from 1922-1967? If Jews reclaim some of this, even at gun point, it seems quite fair.

3. What does this have to do with an Orthodox Patriarch?

16 posted on 04/21/2002 9:51:22 PM PDT by rmlew

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

I guess you are speaking about the display of Arrogance Hubris and Provocative Stupidity by the government of Jordan, daring to interfere in a political appointment in a country over which they have no sovereignty.

No.

I am speaking of the Arrogance Hubris and Provocative Stupidity of Israel. Israel already approved the Patriarch in August . . .

Metropolitan Irineos elected Greek Orthodox patriarch

By Haim Shapiro - August, 14 2001 August, 14 2001

JERUSALEM (August 14) - Amid cries of "axios" (he is worthy), Metropolitan Irineos, one of the candidates rejected by the government, was elected Greek Orthodox patriarch of Jerusalem in a colorful ceremony in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.
Yonatan Ben-Ari, head of the Religious Affairs Ministry's department for Christian communities, who attended the ceremony as the representative of the Israeli government, congratulated the new patriarch shortly after his election. Ben-Ari said afterward that he hopes that even though Israel had at one point disqualified the new patriarch, Irineos would not bear a grudge against the government.
"The Greek people and the Israeli people are friends," the new patriarch told Ben-Ari.
Since 1979, Irineos had served as Exarch, the Jerusalem church's representative in Greece, a position closely connected with the Greek government. Some observers reported active lobbying on his behalf from Greece.
According to these observers, it was because of this connection with the Greek government, which in turn has strong ties with the Arab world, that he was one of the candidates for the post rejected by the Prime Minister's Office.
According to a long-standing rule, the temporal authority must approve the candidates. The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate had sent the list of candidates to Jordan and the Palestinian Authority, as well as Israel.
Both Jordan and the PA had approved the entire list, but Israel, after a long delay, disqualified five of the 15. After one of the candidates petitioned the High Court of Justice, the government retracted and approved the entire list.
The election was thought important in official circles, not only because the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem is considered the mother church of the Holy Land, but because it has extensive land holdings in Jerusalem and throughout the country.
In yesterday's election, the 50 members of the Greek Orthodox Synod first met in the Patriarchate and chose three of the 15 candidates, naming Metropolitan Timothy, the secretary of the Patriarchate, and Metropolitan Cornelios, who had been the deputy, as well as Irineos.
Only the 17 members of the Fraternity of the Holy Sepulcher, the higher clergy, participated in the final vote, which took place in the Greek Orthodox Catholicon of the ancient Church of the Holy Sepulcher opposite the tomb of Jesus. Monks and priests, peering around the iconostasis behind which the balloting took place, shouted out the count to the crowd waiting in the main part of the church as the ballots were counted. On hearing that Irineos had received seven of the 17 votes, with the other two candidates splitting the other votes, the crowd cheered.
Rabbi David Rosen, director of inter-religious activities for the American Jewish Committee, said, "I don't think the election of one or another of the candidates is likely to make any significant difference as far as regional interests are concerned."
Irineos, who was born in Samos in 1939, came to Jerusalem in 1953 and studied at the Greek Orthodox Seminary on Mt. Zion.

17 posted on 04/21/2002 10:26:50 PM PDT by Phil V.

Israel already approved the Patriarch in August.

Based on the story you posted, it looks like it wasn't a done deal. Wouldn't be the first time that a newspaper did not get things straight.

18 posted on 04/21/2002 10:47:44 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla

The landholdings of the Orthodox Church are very much under threat. The Armenian Orthodox Church has already lost significant properties.

Orthodox Patriarchate to renegotiate Jerusalem leases

By Haim Shapiro October, 28 2001

JERUSALEM (October 28) - The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate intends to renegotiate the leases on such prime pieces of church property as that on which the Knesset stands, but it does not intend to use such negotiations as a tool to upset the stability of the state, newly elected Patriarch Irineos said in the first interview granted to the Israeli media.

Irineos stressed that, as a spiritual leader, he does not intend to interfere in political matters. In the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, he said that violence and tension can only lead to an endless loop of bloodshed and human suffering. The only solution is an end to the violence and the resumption of negotiations.

"There is only one viable solution in every conflict between human beings: discussion and mutual concessions," he said.

The interview followed a particularly strong condemnation of terror issued by the patriarch following the assassination of tourism minister Rehavam Ze'evi.

"We condemn this brutal act of hatred, which we consider as a direct attempt to assassinate the peace process in the Holy Land by extremists and cowards who are above all the enemies of their own people," he said.

Irineos issued a call for religious leaders of the world to gather in Jerusalem and "discuss our positions regarding the claims of the extremists that their brutal acts of terror are based on faith." It is the responsibility of men of God to condemn beyond any doubt the evildoers, irrespective of their religion, he said in his statement.

The patriarch pledged his support for the unity of Jerusalem. "Jerusalem, as every other city in the world, can only live and progress as a united city, living in peace and calm," he said.

Although his candidacy had initially been rejected by Israel, the patriarch denied rumors which had circulated at the time of the election that he had been close to the PLO. The purpose of such rumors had been to prevent his election, he said, and they had failed.

"I am not pro-Palestinian, nor pro-Israeli, nor pro-anything. I am only pro-God," he stressed.

In answer to the assertion that the bulk of his followers are Palestinians, the patriarch said that this is not necessarily the case. He is the spiritual leader, he said, of all Orthodox Christians in the Holy Land, including not only Arabs, but Romanians, Greeks, and an unspecified number of non-Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union, a group which sources in the patriarchate said could number hundreds of thousands.

At the same time, Irineos denied that senior positions in the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate are not open to Palestinian priests. It is true, he explained, that married priests, which include many of the Palestinian clergy, cannot become bishops in any Orthodox church, but he added that there are some Palestinian priests who are unmarried.

Regarding the Church property, which includes vast tracts in Jerusalem, much of it on long-term leases, Irineos said that a team of experts is to examine all transfers of property, particularly during the past seven years. The goal of the patriarchate is to repossess as much land as possible, but at the same time it would act pragmatically, he said.

"We understand the importance of land ownership in the very sensitive pending geopolitical issues, especially regarding the future of Jerusalem," he said.

The patriarch made a point of promising that there would be no secret land deals in the future and he stressed that no one - of any religion, nationality, or political belief - would be able in the future to play "geo-strategical games," with the church's property behind its back.

19 posted on 04/21/2002 10:49:00 PM PDT by Phil V.

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

It wouldn't be the first time that Israel "moved the goal posts" and changed the rules to fit the occasion.

Face it. Irineos is a pain in the ass to Israel. The MAN has balls. As such Israel will not be content until Israel has a man more to Her liking - more submissive, obedient, pliable . . .

20 posted on 04/21/2002 10:54:57 PM PDT by Phil V.

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