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Get It Straight -- The hypocrisy of blaming gays for sexual abuse by priests.
Slate ^ | April 24, 2002 | William Saletan

Posted on 04/25/2002 10:00:49 AM PDT by Incorrigible

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To: NittanyLion
Most of the hurdles are based on proving mental competence, or so I've read.

Actually, guarding against depression is only one consideration. The patient must be terminally ill with no reasonable chance for recovery. More than one opinion is required. And so forth.

Still, it is clear that we require much more than mutual consent for certain behaviors, particularly those which are harmful.

The State has no basis for dictating to terminally ill patients how long they must suffer.

The state does, however, have a duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Oregon has opened the door to a list of possible horrors, as we've seen in the Netherlands, where doctors have been know to decide "for" comatose patient. Some patients feel pressured into ending their lives so as not to trouble family members or others.

Odd, isn't it, how far afield these discussion go.

Given the documented health detriments of homosexual behavior, our society not only has the right to refuse to normalize, embrace, or celebrate it, but a duty to do so.

121 posted on 04/25/2002 3:37:38 PM PDT by FormerLib
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To: Incorrigible
The liberal mafia currently assaulting the Catholic Church are the same vermin attempting to destroy the Boy Scouts for not letting NAMBLA vermin from take litttle boys off into the woods.
122 posted on 04/25/2002 4:39:18 PM PDT by friendly
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Hmmm..... I'm curious..... did you CHOOSE to be attracted to the opposite sex?

There is only one “orientation,” the rest is pathology.


Interesting opinion. Can you elaborate and give some reasoning behind it?
123 posted on 04/25/2002 5:03:30 PM PDT by moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
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To: ThomasMore
REAL Catholics are concerned that there ARE homosexual priests, many are active and some abuse children and adolescents

REAL Catholics are concerned that priests take a vow of 'celibacy' - whether straight or homosexual - and have no business breaking that vow while pontificating at 'sinners' from a pulpit.

124 posted on 04/25/2002 6:29:33 PM PDT by Happygal
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To: ThomasMore
REAL Catholics are concerned that there ARE homosexual priests, many are active and some abuse children and adolescents

REAL Catholics are concerned that priests take a vow of 'celibacy' - whether straight or homosexual - and have no business breaking that vow while pontificating at 'sinners' from a pulpit.

125 posted on 04/25/2002 6:29:39 PM PDT by Happygal
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To: MadRobotArtist
Thanks for the reply. I cannot disagree with you. Openly, proudly gay priests are wrong from the get-go. So is hypocritical scapegoating. Peace.
126 posted on 04/25/2002 8:52:15 PM PDT by avenir
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To: moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
Interesting opinion. Can you elaborate and give some reasoning behind it?

Try the DSM I or the DSM II for starters then try Freud, Charles Socarides, Gregory Dickson and of course Joseph Nicolosi if you want some current info.

127 posted on 04/25/2002 8:55:33 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: sixtycyclehum
"I don't like being around piles of dung, so then by the fudgy boys logic, i'm a coprophiliac. "

We have another Bumper Sticker winner!

128 posted on 04/25/2002 10:16:02 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Happygal
AMEN to that!
129 posted on 04/26/2002 3:10:39 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: MadRobotArtist
Your argument does not compute. First, you say that "Although priests are supposed to be celibate, it's the sin that makes one evil", and then you say ". I say defrock all gay priests. Remove them from their posts".

IF you define homosexuality as a sexual attraction to your own sex, and if a priest by that definition is and remains celibate, then how can you argue that he should be defrocked. He has committed no sin.

No--zero tolerance should be based on ACTS OF WILL--not thoughts. If ANY priest commits a CRIME (sexual acts with a minor of EITHER sex) then they should be turned in to the civil authorities for adjudication. Where the church has fallen down is that they have tried to handle these matters internally and secretly.

130 posted on 04/26/2002 8:52:48 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Try the DSM I or the DSM II for starters then try Freud, Charles Socarides, Gregory Dickson and of course Joseph Nicolosi if you want some current info.

Well, most of Freud's theories are even more outdated then the DSM 1 and 2.... try the DSM 4 (or is 5 available?) for more current psychological theories.
131 posted on 04/26/2002 12:38:34 PM PDT by moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
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To: Incorrigible
The hypocrisy of blaming gays for sexual abuse by priests

I would have thought that the hypocrisy of blaming anyone other than those individuals who commit the crimes, and the individuals charged with supervising them who instead cover for them and thus make further crimes possible, was self-evident.

132 posted on 04/26/2002 12:40:20 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: Wonder Warthog
Actually, If you are Gay, regardless if you are sexually active, you are an abomination to God. That is God's word, and that should be enough for anyone.
133 posted on 04/26/2002 6:10:43 PM PDT by MadRobotArtist
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To: MadRobotArtist
"Actually, If you are Gay, regardless if you are sexually active, you are an abomination to God. That is God's word, and that should be enough for anyone."

Actually, I think "God's word" talks about "men who lay with men", which says "sexually active" to me (Sodom/Gomorrah).

I don't know what causes the homosexual tendency, but I simply don't believe that one with that tendency who RESISTS TEMPTATION and DOESN'T "lay with another man" is any more an "abomination" than any other Christian.

134 posted on 04/26/2002 7:46:32 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
That's the difference between being repentant, and un-repentant. If a priest is celibate, he shouldn't be gay. If a priest is openly gay, then why in the world should they be allowed to be a priest? Sexual preference factors in here, since the priest in question WANTS to be with other men, hence is sinning in his or her heart. Being recognized as Gay, says that this person has made a choice, and that choice is to be against what God believes. Even the desire, or lust to be gay is sinful. That's the whole point. It says in the Bible, that if your eye causes you to sin, then to pluck it out. It's that simple. The Catholic Church as well as other faiths have let wolves in among the sheep. Gay priests and other religious people KNOW they are against what God's word says.

When you knowingly go against God, there should be consequences. That includes all the other sins. I'd like to think that the Bible should be enough for anyone. If you need to defend Gays as priests that's your business, I'm sure in the name of tolerance you'd like to make sure nobody is victimized. Unfortunately, Tolerance coupled with treachery is what got the Catholic Church a huge black eye with this gay priest / pedophile scandal.

135 posted on 04/27/2002 3:41:35 AM PDT by MadRobotArtist
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To: MadRobotArtist
"When you knowingly go against God, there should be consequences. That includes all the other sins. I'd like to think that the Bible should be enough for anyone. If you need to defend Gays as priests that's your business, I'm sure in the name of tolerance you'd like to make sure nobody is victimized."

Ah, but you make my point. A priest who KNOWS that for whatever reason, his sexual orientation is toward other males, but admits the weakness, asks for forgiveness, and RESISTS the temptation to act, has done all God asks of him. I've got no use for active queers (priests or not), and any priest who molests a juvenile of EITHER sex (and ANY religion) needs to be IMMEDIATELY turned in to the civil authorities for investigation/prosecution.

The problem for the church is priests who succumb to their urges, and the people in the church hierarchy who cover up for them. The church keeps trying to "handle things internally", and it won't wash. The church MUST institute a zero tolerance policy that ANY priest who might have commited such a crime HAS to be turned over to civil authority--if the church ALSO has some internal structure/procedures to take ADDITIONAL action (defrocking, whatever) AFTER the civil jurisdiction has taken action, that is fine, but those internal procedures CANNOT replace the absolute requirement for them to "turn the bastards in".

If the bishops don't institute such a zero tolerance policy, it will destroy the organized Catholic church. The church heirarchy has already suffered so much damage already that it may be irreversible, but they STILL waffle.

136 posted on 04/27/2002 5:09:22 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
Well, I guess we do agree for the most part.
137 posted on 04/27/2002 6:47:13 AM PDT by MadRobotArtist
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To: Incorrigible
The priesthood must be fag free
138 posted on 04/30/2002 3:14:27 PM PDT by Zorrito
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Comment #139 Removed by Moderator


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