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To: american colleen
In matters where the Church formerly could be a "beacon of light" .... Her beacon has been dimmed considerably by the evils of men within Her.

And this is surprising? The Church has survived in spite of the venal men who have led it from time to time -- think of Popes like Alexander VI (Ceasare Borgia), Cardinals like Richelieu and Bishops like Talleyrand, of the scandals that led first to the founding and then to the reform of various orders of monks and nuns, of the abuses that led to the Reformation. As painful as it may be, read what the Protestant historians such as von Ranke (History of the Popes) have written on the Church in the late medieveal, renaissance and reformation periods. I suggest that despite their obvious hostility to Rome, because the Church approved historians consistently minimize the problems that led to the Reformation. The Reformation, regardless of what one things fo it, and regardless of whether it was heretical or not, came out of sincere righteous anger and indignation at very real abuses in the Church and frustration at all attempts to reform the Church from within. American Catholics have never much been given to learning about the Reformation, perhaps now would be a good time for both the hierarchy and laity to really read what the Protestants and their historians were saying, if only to understand why the hierarchy's intransigence now is playing with fire far beyond their human understanding.

8 posted on 04/30/2002 5:42:43 AM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: CatoRenasci
Thanks for your thoughtful words. I'm married to a (lapsed) Lutheran and have read fairly extensively on the Reformation (from both the Catholic and Non-Catholic angles) - and you are right, the Reformation was born of sincere righteous anger. The only unfortunate part is that now we need the term "seperated brethren" - had Rome listened to *some* of M. Luther's proposed reforms, we might have avoided some of the resultant heartache.

However, the "reforms" proposed by some of the newly forming dissenting groups are not proposing "reforms" that correct the problems within the Church. They are groups with agendas that propose changing dogma and will consequently bring the Catholic Church more in line with some of the mainstream Protestant religions.

I believe that only an adherence to Catholic Catachism will rid the Church of the evil within.

11 posted on 04/30/2002 6:23:25 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: CatoRenasci
The Reformation, regardless of what one things fo it, and regardless of whether it was heretical or not, came out of sincere righteous anger and indignation at very real abuses in the Church and frustration at all attempts to reform the Church from within.

100% correct
20 posted on 04/30/2002 6:53:03 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: CatoRenasci
"The Reformation, ... came out of sincere righteous anger and indignation at very real abuses in the Church and frustration at all attempts to reform the Church from within. American Catholics have never much been given to learning about the Reformation, perhaps now would be a good time for both the hierarchy and laity to really read what the Protestants and their historians were saying .."

One could begin HERE and HERE

29 posted on 04/30/2002 7:46:21 AM PDT by Matchett-PI
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