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Church sees gray where there's only black and white
Seattle Post-Intelligencer/New York Times ^ | 5/4/02 | Maureen Dowd

Posted on 05/04/2002 9:27:33 AM PDT by ppaul

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To: Goldhammer
The author seems to be an idiot.

ROFL

Understatement of the decade.

41 posted on 05/04/2002 9:04:44 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: uncbob
Most contraceptives are abortifacients, and therefore shouldn't be used because they can kill a conceived child.

Regarding the Catholic teaching on contraceptives, I'm not an expert on this matter. I have never suggested that those who use birth control shouldn't attend mass; I simply stated that the Catholic Church should not change it's teachings simply because some .. even most .. in the church do not abide by its teachings.

On the "sin scale", I don't know where contraceptive use falls. Personally, I think it's a serious sin, but not a mortal sin unless the contraceptive is an abortifacient, in which case it is a mortal sin because it procures an abortion. However, I also believe that Catholics who are actively practicing should try their hardest to abide by the teachings of the church. There are sound moral and biblical reasons to not use contraceptives.

Finally, I just want people who don't agree to just stop trying to tear apart the church. They can silently dissent by not practicing what the church teaches, but to try and subvert the church by saying the TEACHING is wrong (when, in fact, it is a moral good, just not convenient) is doubly wrong.

I'm not explaining myself well, but I feel strongly about this. I try very hard to live by the teachings of the church because I believe they are inspired or demanded by God. Sometimes I fail. But when I fail, I don't expect the church to change because I did something sinful; I confess and repent and strive to not commit the same sin, through perseverence and prayer.

God bless.

42 posted on 05/04/2002 9:18:09 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: Snuffington
Not only what you said above but, Dowd further shows her lame liberal emotional thought processes with this silliness...

The cardinals chose defiance over deference to the expectations of their devastated flock, which thought that celibacy, women priests and married priests might be discussed.

She is incapable of understanding that these "remedies" will exacerbate the current homosexual problem in the Church.

I skimmed her article (thats as much time as I can devote to her silly screeds with getting sick to my stomach) and noticed that she did not touch on the "root cause" of the problem - homosexuality in the priesthood. Rather, she goes out of her way to talk about her Catholic homosexual friends!

I dare say the overwhelming majority of Catholics do not have homosexuals whom they consider friends! They know some, to be sure and some may even be family relatives but to say they are amongst one's circle of friends is outlandish - except for Dowd and her ilk.

43 posted on 05/05/2002 6:27:06 AM PDT by Seeking the truth
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To: uncbob
If you eliminate those who use birth control you will be very lonely at mass on Sunday and the churches coffers will be bare here in the USA .

The Church has never proposed "eliminating" them. It has always offered them forgiveness, no matter how many times they commit this sin.

Those who want to take vote on what constitutes sin, rather than faithfully trying to follow the will of God expressed through His Church, are separating themselves from the Church, not the other way around. Even if they leave on this basis, the Church will continue to hold a place for them and pray for their return.

And there has been quite enough concentration on the "coffers" of the Church in the USA. These coffers are bursting, while the souls of the faithful are neglected. If it comes down to a choice of faithfully observing the will of God, or having a wealthy Chuch (a false dichotomy I believe), the correct choice ought to be obvious.

44 posted on 05/05/2002 8:04:48 AM PDT by Snuffington
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To: ppaul
Aren't male paedophiles (or rapists of teenage children, if one insists on that not-very-meaningful distinction) often married (to women) at the time of their crimes? Doesn't that refute the proposition that celibacy vow = paedophilia?
45 posted on 05/05/2002 8:12:37 AM PDT by pttttt
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To: pttttt
Doesn't that refute the proposition that celibacy vow = paedophilia?

Are you implying that they are connected?
Has anyone?

46 posted on 05/05/2002 8:40:05 AM PDT by ppaul
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: UKscot
Not coy in the least, the scripture is quite clear.

And you seem confused about the commandments, so hear it is as you don't seem to know what you are referring to.

The Eighth Commandment.

Thou shalt not steal.

No, it is you who is confused. The Seventh Commandment is, Thou shalt not steal. Exodus 20:15, Deuteronomy 5:19. The Eighth Commandment is, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Exodus 20:16, Deuteronomy 5:20

And if you're going to continue to vaguely infer that the Roman Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, just come right out and say it. God doesn't appreciate cowards and neither does Jim Robinson.

48 posted on 05/05/2002 5:22:31 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: ppaul
Why are people surprised? Look at who we are talking about. To expect these degenerate prelates to cleanse the priesthood of sexual predators is the equivalent of asking Yassir Arafat to run the terrorists out of the PA.
49 posted on 05/05/2002 5:38:41 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: UKscot; SMEDLEYBUTLER
Whoa!
51 posted on 05/06/2002 5:12:13 PM PDT by ppaul
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
The poster who said the eigth commandment was "You shall not steal is correct." The Catholic church numbers the commandments differently from the way Jews and Protestants do. This is how most Protestants number the commandments

1. I the LORD am your God
2. You shall have no other gods beside me. You shall not make for yourself a sculptured image...
3. You shall not swear falsely by the name of the LORD your God..
4. Remember the sabbath day and keep it holy...
5. Honor your father and your mother...
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not cover you neighbor's house; you shall not neigbor's wife... or anything that is your neigbor's.

In Catholic catechisms commandment number two is missing. I wonder why? Pray to the Mary statue! Don't lie and tell me you don't. I've attended Mass and seen Catholics bow down to the Mary statue in the lobby. Masses aren't bad. The homilies are alright. There are scripture readings and I'm not forced to bow down to the Eucharist. I just stay in the pews while the faithful(I doubt it) come to recieve communion. I noticed that 100% of them didn't bow down to the bread which contains the body and blood of Christ. Even if transubstantiation were true, it would still be idolatry. You're bowing to the the image of bread, not to Christ himself. (The whore of Babylon is all of Christianity, not just the Catholic church.)

I hold to the Christian Research Institute's position on Catholicism, that it is corrupt Christianity but Christianity nonetheless. The one good thing about the Catholicism is its high moral standards. If only the Catholic laity and clergy held to them the world would be a much better place.
52 posted on 07/09/2002 3:27:13 PM PDT by Joel1981
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