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1 posted on 05/12/2002 4:36:07 PM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: swarthyguy
Our better reality denotes that the answer is in the negative.

Yes, that better reality is really working. Suicide bombers, starving kids, women in burqas -- a regular reality paradise, ain't it?

America's Fifth Column ... watch PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

2 posted on 05/12/2002 4:44:04 PM PDT by JCG
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To: swarthyguy
Fatwa - Has Western Civilization Brought Any Comfort?

Prior to September 11's clear demontration of you Muslims being unable to control the very worst of human nature within your ranks, Western Civilization brought us the comfort of knowing that we lived in a society where large, organized, well-financed groups of psychotic fanatics did not assault us with mass destruction on our own soil.

Since then, it has brought us the comfort of knowing that one way or another, we will wipe out the threat that your religion poses to the world. If push comes to shove and we are forced, we have the comfort of knowing that you will lose -- as you should. You barbarian.

3 posted on 05/12/2002 4:46:37 PM PDT by Maceman
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To: swarthyguy
The West, or the universal civilization it leads, is emotionally rejected. It undermines; it threatens. But at the same time it is needed, for its machines, goods, medicines, warplanes, the remittances from the emigrants, the hospitals that might have a cure for calcium deficiency, the universities that will provide master's degrees in mass media. All the rejection of the West is contained within the assumption that there will always exist out there a living, creative civilization, oddly neutral, open to all to appeal to. Rejection, therefore, is not absolute rejection. It is also, for the community as a whole, a way of ceasing to strive intellectually. It is to be parasitic; parasitism is one of the unacknowledged fruits of fundamentalism. And the emigrants pour out from the land of the faith: thirty thousand Pakistanis shipped by the manpower-export experts to West Berlin alone, to claim the political asylum meant for the people of East Germany.

The patron saint of the Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan was Maulana Maudoodi. He opposed the idea of a separate Indian Muslim state because he felt that the Muslims were not pure enough for such a state. He felt that God should be the lawgiver; and, offering ecstasy of this sort rather than a practical programme, he became the focus of millenarian passion. He campaigned for Islamic laws without stating what those laws should be.

He died while I was in Pakistan. But he didn't die in Pakistan: the news of his death came from Boston. At the end of his long and cantankerous life the maulana had gone against all his high principles. He had gone to a Boston hospital to look for health: he had at the very end entrusted himself to the skill and science of the civilization he had tried to shield his followers from. He had sought, as someone said to me (not all Pakistanis are fundamentalists), to reap where he had not wanted his people to sow. Of the maulana it might be said that he had gone to his well-deserved place in heaven by way of Boston; and that he went at least part of the way by Boeing.

-- V.S. Naipaul, Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey.


4 posted on 05/12/2002 4:46:59 PM PDT by dighton
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To: swarthyguy
....the Westerners always brag about their civilization and scientific advancement, with which they view other people with scorn. But to me, the ruins and woes this civilization brought them outweigh its advantage. What do you think?

I think you are absolutely right, Mr. Al-Qaradawi.

Please advise all your co-religionist who feel the same way about Western Civilization as you do to pack up and return the country of their birth so that they will no longer suffer the woes of having to live amongst us Westerners.

6 posted on 05/12/2002 4:53:03 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: swarthyguy
Millions of people flock from the Islamic theocracies to the Western Democracies in a never ending stream. The flow is one-way.

These misguided, benighted people need missionaries more than they need anything else.

13 posted on 05/12/2002 5:07:13 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: swarthyguy
I'll believe this B.S. when the Muslims give up their cell phones and Mercedes Benzes.
15 posted on 05/12/2002 5:15:38 PM PDT by etcetera
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To: swarthyguy
I doubt most westerners feel they are in need of a more spritual lifestyle. I also feel modern material gains, can co-exsist with a spritual lifestyle. It seems foolish to claim cultural and spritual superiority, while at the same time xenophobically murdering everyone different. I think the Islamic peoples cling to their religion, and claim it makes them more virtueous than the west, because the truth is so overwhelmingly bad. The Islamic culture as a whole has an inferiority complex, and so must hide their problem from themselves, with the one thing which makes them unique(Islam).
16 posted on 05/12/2002 5:28:33 PM PDT by Eagle74
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To: swarthyguy
There are probably a lot of us here who would like to discuss the spiritual shortcomings of Western society.

Someone whose society is devoted to buggery and slaughter, repression and ignorance, the maiming of their daughters and the dynamiting of their sons is probably not going to bring much to the discussion.

20 posted on 05/12/2002 5:41:13 PM PDT by marron
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To: swarthyguy
Freedom
21 posted on 05/12/2002 5:43:47 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: swarthyguy
The cause of all these ailments is the absolute freedom granted to man under the umbrella of the Western civilization.

A lot of the rest makes sense for a diagnosis, but then he is quoting a lot. But the above quote is telling. In any event, Arabs have very little to teach the West. Maybe nothing.
24 posted on 05/12/2002 6:21:56 PM PDT by SalukiLawyer
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To: swarthyguy
"Fatwa - Has Western Civilization Brought Any Comfort?"

Geez, where do you start? But since he's whining about spiritual matters, I'd say the Judeo/Chistian ethic of Western civilization has made for some pretty content people.

26 posted on 05/12/2002 6:33:15 PM PDT by A Navy Vet
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To: swarthyguy
"Science Cannot Bring Happiness to Man"

No, science can bring happiness to man in a way religion cannot. Science pulls the wool from man's eyes and empowers him to objectively observe the world, to come to his own conclusions and to assert himself as an independent political being. Science grants freedom because it and its economic offspring, Capitalism, tears apart the old power structures and creates the foundation for a world order based on individualism, freedom and political equality for all people. Religion is the exact opposite of that.

27 posted on 05/12/2002 7:02:08 PM PDT by dheretic
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To: swarthyguy
Fatwa - Has Western Civilization Brought Any Comfort?

One of the great paradoxes of Western Civilization and it's ability for technological advancement is based on secularism and a separation of the divine from the scientific while at the same time embracing the religious as a spiritual necessity for human existence.

Another great partadox is that while Capitalism can exist in a tryrannical or dictatorial setting, democracy and individual liberty cannot exist without it.

What made possible the explosion of the scientific age in Western Civilization was the separation of secular matters and pursuits from the shackles and constraints imposed by the Church in our daily lives. This was the period known as the Renaissance and the Reformation.

Other civilizations have always felt more comfortable in the changeless certainty of backwardness. It is for that reason that they are backward and no excuse will suffice to explain it until they too go through their renaissance and period of scientific discovery and inquiry.

Man and civilizations advance only when there are those willing to question the world around them and take nothing for granted, including authority.

Until there is a major secular movement in Islam they will remain in the 10th century culturally and no more advanced than are the cultures of Canibalism and headhunters.

It is well to remember that Arab culture was on the rise when Islam came onto the scene. It was Arab culture NOT "islamic" culture that was responsible for algebra. It was "Arab" culture" NOT "Islamic" culture that contributed to the most advanced medicine of the age. As Islam became more prevalent and intrusive into the daily lives it precipitated the retardation of all the cultures it came into contact with. It literaly froze these cultures in the period in which Ilsam first impacted.

29 posted on 05/12/2002 7:44:00 PM PDT by Cacique
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To: swarthyguy
No wonder then to see psychiatrists in those countries always having a busy schedule, with throng of clients bringing in their complaints of moral corruption, worry, family disintegration, lack of social stability and solidarity.

This is such a canard. Just because people in the 3rd World don't have the money to see a psychiatrist doesn't mean they are happy. It's a luxury of a free and prosperous society, one where everyone has many chances and much help in leading a happy life.
32 posted on 05/12/2002 7:52:28 PM PDT by self_evident
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To: swarthyguy
Among those scientists is Alexis Carlyle, the noble prize winner in science and the author of “Man; That Unknown Being” in which he put Western civilization to criticism based on scientific criteria.

And also among those scientists are thousands who would think that Carlyle is more than a little nuts.
33 posted on 05/12/2002 7:53:58 PM PDT by self_evident
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To: swarthyguy
The main error in this pile of... claptrap is the claim that "Western civilization is solely materialistic." Let other nations speak for themselves, but the heart of most of the advances of Western civilization in the last two centuries is here, in the United States.

Any competent student of the history of the creation of the United States, its government, its society, and its economy, knows that the spiritual roots or our society run deep, and for most of us, still run strong. As FRanklin and others observed, our government "is suitable for a virtuous people, and will not serve any other."

Our material success is not the end product of ourcivilization, but only a byproduct of our having made the right choices, religiously and ethically, at the beginning. One of those choices is religious tolerance, a concept that is essential to any society of many faiths and influences. It is also a totally unknown concept in the backward societies of the Muslim world.

Arguing with people who write, and apparently believe, tripe like this, is utterly futile. One might as well argue with a member of the Flat Earth Society about the roundness of the Earth. Some such people are capable of getting a clue, such as when Christopher Columbus sailed to America and DID NOT FALL OF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH. Others, however, will remain dumb as a doorstop for the balance of their natural lives.

With the writer of this twaddle, I'm betting on dumb as a doorstop. And as for the values of Muslim "civilization," when your leading thinkers are dumb as a doorstop, it cannot but be headed down the toilet of history, to put not too fine a point on it.

Congressman Billybob

Click here to fight Campaign Finance "Reform" - CFR

Click here for latest: "Albert Einstein, Paul Hyde & Christina Asquith."

34 posted on 05/12/2002 7:54:26 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: swarthyguy
In fact, the entire universe witnesses to the fact that it is Almighty Allah Who has created everything. Almighty Allah says: “Our Lord is He Who gave unto evening its nature, then guided it aright.” (Taha: 50)

Yet these self same people who claim such spiritual superiority show their disdain for God every day by destroying his creations through murder and suicide. This would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

This arrogant *** doesn't know the first thing about this country.

35 posted on 05/12/2002 7:55:53 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: swarthyguy
This is about the funniest thing I have read in a year. What a sick bunch of psychos Muslims are.
36 posted on 05/12/2002 7:57:25 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: swarthyguy
Fatwa - Has Western Civilization Brought Any Comfort?

May this fatuous muslim prick suffer a horrible toothache, and not have the "Western" comfort of a dentist...
39 posted on 05/12/2002 8:09:48 PM PDT by Kozak
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To: swarthyguy
Same arguments the church used to keep us in the dark ages for centuries. Personally, I'm damned comfortable, and do without spirituality just fine. In fact, I find a certain spirituality in being unspiritual.
42 posted on 05/12/2002 8:31:41 PM PDT by Mensch
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