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To: SunStar
In fact our first two wars following the ratification of the Constitution were undeclared, at least on our part. The first was the naval Quasi-War with France that lasted from 1797 to 1799. The second was the war with the Barbary Pirates. There was a DOW in that one--sort of. On May 10th, 1801 the pasha of Tripoli "declared war" on the USA by chopping down the flagstaff in front of our consulate there. About the same time a naval squadron was sent with orders to determine whether a state of war existed with the Barbary Pirates and take action against them if it did. I have seen it stated on FR that the US Congress did declare war on the Barbary Pirates, but I haven't ever seen any documentation of that. If someone has such documentation I would like to see it. It seems that niether John Adams nor Thomas Jefferson saw any need to go to Congress for an official DOW once we had been attacked, because an act of war against us automatically created a state of war.
2 posted on 06/14/2002 10:29:36 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: Hugin
That the president is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on Sept. 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

Seems pretty clear to me that we are at war and Bush can act as necessary to defend our nation and its interests. All the flag haters and undercover liebral radicals are coming out from under their rocks. That is the sad part to see so many supposed american citizens act like our country is the enemy and the root of all evil in the world today. It does draw some clear battle lines. Congre$$ skrews up and does the right thing sometimes.. Ok, Not Often, but this is clear.. We ARE At War.
3 posted on 06/14/2002 10:34:27 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: Hugin
FindLaw.com: THE WAR POWER Source and Scope
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article01/41.html

An early controversy revolved about the issue of the President's powers and the necessity of congressional action when hostilities are initiated against us rather than the Nation instituting armed conflict. The Bey of Tripoli, in the course of attempting to extort payment for not molesting United States shipping, declared war upon the United States, and a debate began whether Congress had to enact a formal declaration of war to create a legal status of war. President Jefferson sent a squadron of frigates to the Mediterranean to protect our ships but limited its mission to defense in the narrowest sense of the term. Attacked by a Tripolitan cruiser, one of the frigates subdued it, disarmed it, and, pursuant to instructions, released it. Jefferson in a message to Congress announced his actions as in compliance with constitutional limitations on his authority in the absence of a declaration of war. Hamilton espoused a different interpretation, contending that the Constitution vested in Congress the power to initiate war but that when another nation made war upon the United States we were already in a state of war and no declaration by Congress was needed.Congress thereafter enacted a statute authorizing the President to instruct the commanders of armed vessels of the United States to seize all vessels and goods of the Bey of Tripoli "and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify . . ." But no formal declaration of war was passed, Congress apparently accepting Hamilton's view.

4 posted on 06/14/2002 10:39:42 AM PDT by SunStar
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To: Hugin
I don't know the feelings of Adams, but the Senate did not want to declare war with the Pirates because they felt that would be giving the pirates too much respect. Jefferson, on the other hand, was ready to enter into a "Confederacy" with the European states to fight the common threat of the pirates (The great-grandfather of NATO?). The European states declined, thinking it was cheaper to pay tribute than to fight a war.
12 posted on 06/14/2002 10:59:01 AM PDT by jae471
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To: Hugin
"I have seen it stated on FR that the US Congress did declare war on the Barbary Pirates"

In 1815, during Madison's administration, they declared war.
Jefferson just had a resolution.

180 posted on 06/14/2002 3:26:59 PM PDT by mrsmith
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