Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

LIBERTARIAN HYPOCRACY (Jim Ryan vs. Carla Howell)
The Illinois Leader & Libertarian Party website's "News and Features" ^ | June 26, 2002 | BillyBoy

Posted on 06/26/2002 3:18:57 PM PDT by BillyBoy

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-29 next last
This was a hotly debated item on the Illinois Freeper Board (I resisted chiming in this time, although I did send an email to the LPI Sec. noting that his party had done the SAME thing in Mass.-- I got no responce) Thought we might want to post it here to see everyone's reactions.

How about, Republican and LP freepers? Why is it GOOD when Howell supports this but bad when Jim Ryan does?

1 posted on 06/26/2002 3:18:57 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Land_of_Lincoln_John; RedWing9; TheRightGuy; justshutupandtakeit; spintreebob; Thebaddog; ...
Thought you folks might be interested in seeing this...

BTW, sometimes it's not even a party vs. party issue. Here in Illinois' 18th Senate District, the Chicago machine in the 19th ward almost got Mary Nolan, a fellow DEMOCRAT, kicked off the primary ballot. They wanted a Chicago machine loyalist to AUTOMATICALLY "inherit" O'Malley's seat and vote the way Mike Madigan tells him too. But the local Dems wanted someone who would be loyal to the suburbs first, so they ran a regional candidate from Oak Lawn. Much to our dismay, the local Democrat "leaders" put the loyality of the big city bosses over loyality to their towns, and backed Maloney. But Nolan managed to withstand a huge party beating, got back on the ballot by election day...but lost to Maloney.

2 posted on 06/26/2002 3:29:50 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BillyBoy
Carla is not a real Libertarian & Ryan is not a real Conservative.
3 posted on 06/26/2002 3:30:59 PM PDT by aynrandfreak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BillyBoy
Please. With friends like The Libertarian Party as it is currently governed and overseen, libertarians don't need enemies. I mean, the idiots are still going to admit Harry Browne as one of the party convention's featured speakers - despite his having traduced the party rules on party workers actively working in the employ or on behalf otherwise of a candidate before the candidate has the party's official nomination; despite a top LP official's fiscal improprieties on behalf of Browne and his campaigns (with Browne's approval and subsequent mealymouthed excuses until he was finally forced to admit whoops!), to which said official finally admitted (albeit at figurative gunpoint). I could be out of line here, but I thought that was part of the bullsqueeze - in hand with the political hypocrisies - that led people out of the Major Parties and to such as the LP, and that wasn't supposed to drive them out.
4 posted on 06/26/2002 3:36:31 PM PDT by BluesDuke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BillyBoy
I'm sorry, but I'm soooo sick of this. The word is HYPOCRISY, not "hypocracy," which would seem, from the Greek, to be some kind of rule by the underclass.

Please update your lexicon.

5 posted on 06/26/2002 3:41:37 PM PDT by The Old Hoosier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: spintreebob
Just curious...you've been badmouthing Jim Ryan (and being somewhat justified in doing so).

So what do you think of Carla Howell? I know it's not a state issue but she's very popular within the LP and likely to be their candidate for President in 2004 (ideologically, she's aligned with Harry Browne) There's no disputing that Howell was out gloating and holding pep rallies after the MA election boards did what the LP CLAIMS to be against (use bureaucratic laws to restrict ballot choices) Not only that, she tried to INSIST she was the ONLY alternative to Ted Kennedy and wanted to undermine other actively campaigning 3rd party candidates (which the LP also CLAIMS they are against)

6 posted on 06/26/2002 3:42:14 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: aynrandfreak
Carla is not a real Libertarian & Ryan is not a real Conservative

Everything I've heard about Carla Howell has been positive. She seems to be an advocate of sharp reduction in size and power of gov't. I've even thought of sending her a contribution.

Do you have any examples of non-Libertarian actions on her part?

7 posted on 06/26/2002 4:00:15 PM PDT by LIBERTARIAN JOE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: aynrandfreak
Carla is not a real Libertarian

How so?

8 posted on 06/26/2002 4:02:41 PM PDT by RJCogburn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: BillyBoy
I am curious. Why did you use such tiny type? Did your scroll bar break down?

I am not sure but I think, from what I could read of your post, that the difference is that in the governers race the Republican canadate is behind the effort to check signatures where in the Senate race it was the MA. election board which was behind the effort. Its bad publicity for the Republicans in that respect.

9 posted on 06/26/2002 4:13:39 PM PDT by monday
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
>> Do you have any examples of non-Libertarian actions on her part? <<

Gee, I wonder...

LIBERTARIAN PLATFORM: We urge repeal of ... compelling taxpayers to subsidize politicians and political views which many do not wish to support...Elections at all levels should be in the control of those who wish to participate in or support them voluntarily. We therefore call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns...Many state legislatures have established prohibitively restrictive laws which in effect exclude alternative candidates and parties from their rightful place on election ballots. Such laws wrongfully deny ballot access to political candidates and groups and further deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives. We hold that no state has an interest to protect in this area except for the fair and efficient conduct of elections. In order to grant voters a full range of choice in federal, state, and local elections, we propose the addition of the alternative 'None of the above is acceptable' to all ballots. We further propose that in the event that 'none of the above is acceptable' receives a plurality of votes in any election, either the elective office for that term should remain unfilled and unfunded, or there shall be a new election in which none of the losing candidates shall be eligible."

CARAL "I MUST GET DOUBLE-DIGIT MARGINS AT ANY COST" HOWELL: "The Republican candidate has been knocked off the ballot...a great opportunity is before us -- a two-way against big government Ted Kennedy! This is the U.S. Senate race Americans have been waiting for...having no Republican gives us a chance to focus on what libertarianism is all about -- small government -- and to contrast it to the diametrically opposed Big Government policies of Ted Kenned...This has been our straregy all along, but a Libertarian/Kennedy race will be even more focused. The campaign will seek endorsements from Massachusetts VIPs from those who may have otherwide gone Republican, and will aggressively fundraiser from small-government Republicans...a couple of fringe parties [The Green & Constiution Parties are not legit, according to her] are attemping to make the ballot...but they won't be ruled on until late August. A Libertarian U.S. Senate candidate is in a two-way race-- national [media] coverage will boost party membership and recognition of the Libertarian Party... help to firmly identify the LP as the only political party willing to propose and vote for small government."

10 posted on 06/26/2002 4:18:47 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: monday
>> that the difference is that in the governers race the Republican canadate is behind the effort to check signatures where in the Senate race it was the MA. election board <<

Locate the section where any evidence shows Jim Ryan himself was "behind" the effort to throw Skinner off the ballot. Indeed, SOME supporters of Jim Ryan were shown to be actively working to get Skinner of the ballot (mainly, the 14th WARD GOP, which is a very small Republican organizaiton in Illinois). But Jim Ryan himself seems to merely turn him back and quitely SUPPORT using state laws to kick Skinner off. And I like, the Libertarians were ALL FOR IT when Carla Howell supporting the efforts to kick Jack Robinson off.

In fact, it seems Howell was even a lot MORE vocal in her glee when Robinson was removed. Jim Ryan is not the type to run around gloating.

11 posted on 06/26/2002 4:23:59 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: BillyBoy
Tempests in teapots are the stuff of village idiots and senators. Libertarianism doesn't enter into it.
12 posted on 06/26/2002 4:26:27 PM PDT by dr_who
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BillyBoy
Aren't you one of them Republicans that live in glass houses?
13 posted on 06/26/2002 4:28:58 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Eagle Eye
I don't blindly support anyone with a "R" next to his name for every office, unlike most "big L" Libertarians I know who to this day will tell you Howard Stern was a great choice for the LP and Harry Browne is God.
14 posted on 06/26/2002 4:47:40 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

I am a former chairman of the Libertarian Party of Illinois. I worked in several elections against the attempt of Republican operatives to deny a ballot line to the LPI candidates, despite having satisfied one of the most restrictive ballot access laws in the United States.

What is being attempted against Cal Skinner is perfectly in line with what fearful Republicans in Illinois have been trying to do for at least the last 15 years -- prevent any viable third party from becoming established in Illinois.

I also, however, disagree thoroughly with the outlook and tactics of Carla Howell. She is a principled Libertarian, but she -- and her highly questionable campaign manager, Michael Emerling Cloud -- were not respecting fundamental justice in gloating over the Republicans' (temporary) failure to make the Massachusetts senatorial ballot.

Although the "established" parties have wangled themselves vastly lower signature requirements to petition for the (usually) primary ballots, those requirements still are not legitimate.

The only proper rules end up reinstating what was true in most jurisdictions in the 19th Century: allowing parties full autonomy in creating their "slates," AND in printing the ballots with those slates, AND allowing any legally qualified individual to be included on the ballot with reasonable notice to the election authorities.

Almost all Libertarians detest having these laws used against anyone, of any or no party. I have, personally, always signed the petition for ANY candidate to qualify him- or herself for the ballot in my area, no matter what party. Carla Howell, whatever her other considerable Libertarian virtues, does not agree with this, and that is why I and many other LP activists did (and do) not support her.

15 posted on 06/26/2002 4:50:22 PM PDT by Greybird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Greybird
Thank you. We have a voice of reason here. ;-)
16 posted on 06/26/2002 4:58:49 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
Oops, I was thinking of a different Carla, an anti-war "libertarian".
17 posted on 06/26/2002 9:48:21 PM PDT by aynrandfreak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: spintreebob
See #6
18 posted on 06/26/2002 11:08:29 PM PDT by BillyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: The Old Hoosier
..."hypocracy," which would seem, from the Greek, to be some kind of rule by the underclass.

We definitely had a hypocracy during the Clinton administration, or was that hippocracy, rule by hippos?

19 posted on 06/27/2002 12:19:39 AM PDT by wai-ming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: BillyBoy
There's no disputing that Howell was out gloating and holding pep rallies after the MA election boards did what the LP CLAIMS to be against (use bureaucratic laws to restrict ballot choices)

Nonsense. The two major parties created the bureaucratic maze, and it's perfectly legitimate to snicker when they get hoist on their own petard. The rules should be changed, yes -- but until then they should apply across the board.

20 posted on 06/27/2002 6:15:32 AM PDT by steve-b
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-29 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson