Go back and read the posts, I'm not clinging to anything. I'm simply asking, if not the ban on DDT, then what? Your explanation is plausible, as have been some others.
Posted on 07/03/2002 4:09:24 AM PDT by backhoe
Go back and read the posts, I'm not clinging to anything. I'm simply asking, if not the ban on DDT, then what? Your explanation is plausible, as have been some others.
You're aware that organic produce comes with an increased risk of e. coli and other infections?
In spite of what people might "think."
If anyone is interested, read Trashing the Planet by Dixie Lee Ray. It is probably one of the most footnoted books ever written.
Dr. Elizabeth Whelan wrote a great book about all the hokum and bullhockey "science" used to make DDT appear to be similar to high-level nuclear waste.
She also reports on the Congressional testimony surrounding the ban, when some pro-ban type (with a lot of credentials) was testifying. Some Congressman asked whether a ban would not increase the amount of malaria in the Far East. And the 'expert' said "So what? They're just brown people."
Let me show you another: after women got the vote, we had the Great Depression, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Thus we can conclude that women are the cause of American involvement in wars of the 20th Century.
Better try another, and better, proof.
Let me show you another: after women got the vote, we had the Great Depression, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Thus we can conclude that women are the cause of American involvement in wars of the 20th Century.Geez, try and read more carefully, my posts aren't hard to miss. I've nowhere claimed that DDT banning was responsible for the increase in the raptor populations.
Better try another, and better, proof.Kind of a pathetic analogy. Here's why...
Prior to the ban on DDT, the specific claim was made that by banning it, the populations of Peregrine Falcons and Bald Eagles would rebound.
DDT was banned and the populations rebounded. That would appear, on it's face, to confirm the predictions of those who proposed the ban. May or may not be true, but it lends some credibility to their position.
Therefore, this is not a simple matter of a post hoc fallacy even being in play. If the ban didn't lead to the population rebounds, something else did at preciesly the time of the ban. That's a nice coincidence, isn't it? So, I'm not ready to leap to any conclusions just yet.
OTH, were there specific warnings by opponents of women's suffrage that women's vote would lead to would lead to the Great Depression, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam?
No, so your analogy fails.
Perhaps you've gleaned by now that you've stepped in it... I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm asking questions.
Some have raised doubts that DDT caused eggshell thinning. Fair enough. There is still the question of what caused the rebound in the populations of the specific birds of prey in question.
Radical environmentalist are racists.
Regards,
L
Thus one cannot claim that DDT in and of itself DECREASED raptor population.
Following this, it would be just as dangerous to maintain that the post-1960 DECREASE in raptor population was caused by DDT usage.
I am perfectly willing to admit that abuse of any substance will have serious effects--even the abuse of accounting has had serious effects.
At the same time, the loss of lives (and in the USA the expense of replacement chemicals along with the still-unknown effects of some of them) is worth consideration.
Radical enironmentalists are anti-PEOPLE, not against a certain race. They don't like ANYONE. Some feel that the Earth would be better off with far less people in general.
Disturbing viewpoint.... but not representative of the average hippy type environmentalists and certainly not representative of the converative tilted ones... like your average hunter who wants to preserve nature (ducks unlimited).
Thus one cannot claim that DDT in and of itself DECREASED raptor population.
Following this, it would be just as dangerous to maintain that the post-1960 DECREASE in raptor population was caused by DDT usage.
I am perfectly willing to admit that abuse of any substance will have serious effects--even the abuse of accounting has had serious effects.Perhaps not (if the poster's info is correct), but keep in mind that DDT wasn't banned until the early 1970s. Also, the explanation was given that DDT was moving up the food chain to strike at the top, where the raptors are. How long would that process take? I don't know.
Here's where I'm coming from... a few of the einvironmental measures undertaken in the early 70s seem to have borne fruit... unleaded gas and catalytic converters, the DDT ban, etc. I say "seem to" because after the measures were taken, the desired results materialized.
I'm highly critical of much of "Big Green" and "Deep Ecology," but I want to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I've got no fetish for the ban on DDT, if it turns out to have been baseless.
At the same time, the loss of lives (and in the USA the expense of replacement chemicals along with the still-unknown effects of some of them) is worth consideration.
Agreed on both points.
Bring back DDT!
I never heard of Kenneth Mellanby, but I know that Dr. Gordon Edwards (Emeritus U.C. Berkeley) testified to Congress and advocated against the ban and for its continued use and drank the chemical during many subsequent lectures. However, ignorance is always embraced by the arrogant.
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