It Didn't Go Out with Vatican II

Mark-Shea.com ^ | Mark P. Shea

[Catholicguy]

Clearly, this decision has unsettled you. You repeatedly reference it and post commentary about it. Is it your desire to unsettle others and tempt others to doubt the competency of Divinely-constituted authority to take correct decisions?
You really have to learn to trust in the Church that Jesus established. I notice that some of the commentary was lifted from Call to Action. Do you consider their "understanding" of the matter to be superior to the commentary of the legitimate, competent authority, whose commentary accompanied the decision that has so unsettled you?
Relax, the Catholic Church has not only not failed, it is incapable of doing so...
Pax tecum

[Catholicguy]

" Cardinal Martini of Milan has been reported as saying, for instance, that the Church has no business getting involved in the personal morals of individual Catholics."

And, as we know, "reporting" is impecccable....

[american colleen]

Here is the link you provided in post #18. An eye opener, IMO. "Clash of the Titans"

"The Kasper-Ratzinger Debate & The State of the Church"

[Desdemona]

The Immaculate Conception is definitely still "IN." Especially among the "Mary Men" of which I know scores. And for the most part, they're lay people.

[american colleen]

Clearly, this decision has unsettled you. You repeatedly reference it and post commentary about it. Is it your desire to unsettle others and tempt others to doubt the competency of Divinely-constituted authority to take correct decisions?

Not much "unsettles" me, I like to see all sides of the issues posted so I am aware of what is going on within the Church and I can then do further research. It is impossible for most of us (I suspect) to read everything writen in the magazines, on the Internet and in the newspapers, so I appreciate what others think is important enough to post on FR for purposes of information and discussion. In narses' defense, this was the first time I had seen this information posted, and I am happy that he posted it. A few times in the last months, I have had days that I have been confused and rather dejected... and I depend on you guys (the Catholics on FR) a lot for moral support - I would hope that if I post something that you don't like, but it bothers me, you can reassure me and not just accuse me of not trusting in the Church that Jesus established.

[narses]

The Church cannot fail, but the fallible men in leadership can. Vatican I recorded many, many cases where Popes were wrong. Kasper's pronouncement is NOT infallible. The Words of the Consecration are essential by every other reading of Church law that I have seen. While this decision affects only a very few Faithful, it represents well Cardinal Kasper's views.

[american colleen]

Welcome! I like the term "Mary Men" - sounds like they are equipped with armor (well, I guess they are!).

[Catholicguy]

" I would hope that if I post something that you don't like, but it bothers me, you can reassure me and not just accuse me of not trusting in the Church that Jesus established."

My post was directed to Narses, not you.

[american colleen]

But I could have posted it.

[american colleen]

As you have seen we are willing to do battle with each other..:>)

No battles! :-)

[Catholicguy]

But I could have posted it.


For reasons unbeknownst to me, you desire to feel offended. Please reread the post I directed to Narses, not you. I knew it was directed to Narses (not you), he knows it was directed to him (not you), its content references things Narses did (not you).

[Catholicguy]

This is the link to the text about the decision re the Chaldean Church


http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20011025_chiesa-caldea-assira_en.html

[Catholicguy]

THE ROMAN CURIA
In exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the universal Church, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which, therefore, perform their duties in his name and with his authority for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors.
CHRISTUS DOMINUS,

[american colleen]

I might be being a bit think skinned here, for sure. I've seen a couple of people post similar posts to him lately, and I just don't care for it, that's all. If I am not supposed to reply to your posts, then please post them privately to the party you wish to address. I'm under the impression that FR is a public forum. Maybe you could preface your posts by indicating whether they are for everybody, or just somebody, if you wish a particular response.

[american colleen]

PS. I don't feel offended.

[waterstraat]

"How about those doily thingamabobs on women's heads?" he'd ask. "Oh, that went out with Vatican II."

Lots of Catholic women now go to curch wearing blue jeans.

[Catholicguy]

I've seen a couple of people post similar posts to him lately, and I just don't care for it, that's all.

(Fine)

If I am not supposed to reply to your posts, then please post them privately to the party you wish to address.

(I was responding to a public comment and my comments were NOT directed to you. Man oh man....)


I'm under the impression that FR is a public forum. Maybe you could preface your posts by indicating whether they are for everybody, or just somebody, if you wish a particular response.


(Good Lord. Post #21 was directed to Narses. Please read it and see it was directed to him and not you. How many times do you have to be told that post had absolutely nothing to do with you?)

Ma'am, goodbye

[SuziQ]

No Catholic should ever have to wonder what the Church teaches today. The 'internals' are the same as they always were, with changes in the 'externals'. The relevant priest who can talk to the young at the 'Church of What's Happening Now' and the local Nazi Nun may have their own opinions, but the Church didn't change Her core teachings with Vatican II.

If you want to know what is expected of a good Catholic, what to teach your children, and you don't have a lot of time to spend looking around for books and materials, just buy a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. When you have a question, look up the subject in the index! My brother in law used the Catechism in the Confirmation classes in his Parish, and when the kids were confirmed, the Parish gave them each a copy for themselves.

As with people and politics, most Catholics don't take the time to inform themselves of the Church's teachings, and if the preaching in their Parish is as woefully inadequate as it was in ours for many years, they certainly won't get the message when they go to Mass on Sunday. We have a new Assoc. Pastor who is a very good homilist, and he's even begun to be an influence on the preaching of our Pastor. Nothing helps like raising the standard.

[narses]

I agree. That does NOT make their actions infallible.

[narses]

I take CG's posts as fraternal correction at most, polite conversation may be even more accurate. If I should post error (and I can, believe me), it is inadvertant or ignorant. I confess to the truths and dogmas of the Catholic Church, I pray for the Pope and my Bishop every day in preparation for my daily Rosary and I will in no way deny Our Lord or His Church. Period. On the other hand, when I see Cardinal Kasper and Fr. McBrien taking the Church to task for teaching the truth (and mocking the words of the Consecration as "magic words" and "hocus-pocus" in reference to "Hoc est corpus meum") I will speak out. My desire is to defend Our Faith not harm the Church. (In fact, I cannot harm the Church, at most I would harm my own soul and perhaps those of others -- the Church can and will withstand all.)