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To: xsrdx
The Galil is actually a hybridized AKM, it incorporates elements of Stoners AR15/AR180 also. The AK cadillac is probably the Valmet.

Hardly. The AKM utilizes a stamped/pressed receiver; the Galil was not only developed from Finnish Valmet m/62 receivers, but Israel Galili's first prototypes were actually built on Finnish-marked receivers, using American 1:12 twist barrels and Stoner M63 automatic rifle magazines. The milled-receiver rk/62 Valmet's are indeed hell for stout, but have been superseded by the stamped receiver Valmet m/76 more akin to the AKM, though the m/76 has itself been replaced in Finnish military service by the newer rk95TP- which has reverted to a milled receiver again.

The AUG and French FAMAS, along with the SA80, are the only other bullpups adopted by major armies, of the three only the AUG has been successfully exported.

It's unclear how widespread the issue of the new bullpup the Chinese PLA has developed, but it appears to be in the hands of their airborne and Naval Landing Force [Marines] at least. And of course the enormously successful Uzi submachinegun can be considered a bullpup itself.

Interestingly I've heard little about this rifle in the small arms press, it's been developed quietly.

There've been stories in Jane's International Defense Review, Small Arms Review, Gun World, and Soldier of Fortune, at least. Even the SFOR Informer had a short but detailed article on the things.

M4 MWS or SOPMOD is a more flexible choice but perhaps this rifle will be successful.

And hopefully less fragile. Lots of M4 buttstocks breaking off in Israeli service I hear, which leaves the gun unfirable. The Israelis had such difficulties with cut-down M16 carbines being crushed and broken aboard their armoured vehicles that cutdown Galil *Glilon* shorty carbines instead replaced the Uzi as the Israeli tankists' off-vehicle weaponry.

The IDF is generally intolerant of crap, apparently unlike the UK MOD.

The Israelis will certainly use a less than desirable bit of gear until something better comes along, but their real brilliance is in carefully noting intirm fixes and field expedients from their troops in the field, and often adopting those modifications as upgrades service-wide. One thing the Israeli supply and ordnance branches do not have is a *Not invented Here* rejection factor- they happily steal from the best they can find, almost as if their lives depended on doing so....

-archy-/-

32 posted on 07/24/2002 10:22:52 AM PDT by archy
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To: archy
We're missing another fugly bullpup: the FN-2000. Does any army use this gun? Sad to go from the beauty of the FN-LAR to this ... my grand kids will probably think it's a classic. This pic has the attached grenade launcher. The data sheet proudly notes it has an intergal battery compartment. If that's progress in gun design I guess I'm a retro-grouch.


33 posted on 07/24/2002 10:39:34 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: archy
Thanks for the well informed post.

My point on the Galil is that it's not an AK - the gas system and rotating bolt are as closely related to Stoner's design as they are Kalashnikov's, although you could argue the AR180 was an evolved AK.

The Uzi is a subgun and thus not in the same category.

Most M16 Carbines in IDF service are in fact CAR15 variants, not true M4's. The collapsible buttstock design for the M4 has gone through several design evolutions, but they are still fragile compared to fixed or folding stock designs. The most recent "ribbed" buttstocks are pretty durable, although they still utilize the same aluminum recoil spring tube as the previous versions.

Didn't know about the PLA rifle, and now that I've started looking, I've found Tavor articles everywhere. So much for being on top of things.

35 posted on 07/24/2002 11:01:39 AM PDT by xsrdx
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