Austria Formally Declares War on Servia; Russia Moving Troops; Peace of Europe In Kaiser's Hands

NewYorkTimes ^ | July 28, 1914 | Special Cable

[andy_card]

Replace FF with Bush, and Austria with USA. Sounds just like an Islamic Fundamentalist.

You're not as clever as you'd like to think. There are no parallels between 1914 Austria-Hungary and 2002 USA. Nada. None. Zilch.

Does the US have numerous feuding ethnic groups yearning for independence? No. Does the US have a declining monarchy? No. Does the US have a weak military? No. Is the US surrounded by four much stronger powers? No. Is there a sharp divide between the US political and economic centers (comperable to Vienna/Budapest)? No. Are foreign powers lusting after American territory? No.

I could go on like this forever, if you'd like. Your pithy insults are interesting, but couldn't be more wrong.

[andy_card]

But watch out...the revisionist crowd here on FR are, for the most part, NOT Americans....and they have no respect at all for AMERICANs, especially our Soldiers who served or died in WWI.

Whether they're Americans or not, they have more fun playing around with history to suit their own purposes than they do reporting the facts.

I know because I have fight after fight with them and they even insulted my Grandfather's service in the GREAT WAR by saying he was fighting for something he did not understand...he was a high ranking aide to General Pershing, for crying out loud!!

That's just incredible. I'm not sure why people always try to imagine our forefathers as slavish morons. People then were just as intelligent as they are now, and you should be proud of your grandfather.

[crazykatz]

Thank you very much.

Granddad was proud of his country and "his soldiers" as he called them, until the day he died.

Our family has served in every war this land was involved in...including serving with Washington in the French and Indian War in the militia.

Heck, my first ancestors in the New World arrived in the mid-17th century.

Not many or none of these revisionists can make that claim.

[weikel]

What you say about Austria-Hungary is probably true( Bush is at least as foolish as Ferdinand though) but nevertheless there were parallels. If Russia had just not gotten involved and let the Austrians get rid of the Serb terrorist groups( I hope you don't deny that the Black Hand was a terrorist group) the Great War would have been avoided.

[weikel]

Why did Russia have to get involved??? It was basically an internal affair of Austria it had no bearing on the security of the Russian Empire.

[weikel]

I think you are confusing feudalism with monarchy. Capitalism is superior to feudalism but there is nothing at all redeeming about mob rule( or democracy if you prefer to dignify this retarded form of government). Democracy enshrines egalitarianism and socialism. It allows people to vote themselves things that don't belong to them and in the end ruins itself economically.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. "- Alexander Tyler

Im a Monarchist so I don't take any joy in the destruction of Monarchy.

[Ditto]

Im a Monarchist so I don't take any joy in the destruction of Monarchy.

So can I be King? It's good to be King.

[weikel]

Any conservative as king would work better than our current government.

[Ditto]

The idea of "government working better" sends chills up my spine. I am terrified that government would ever be efficient. They are a necessary evil, but much less dangerous when they are simply inept and corrupt.

[weikel]

When they are inept and corrupt though they suck up a lot of tax money. The parts of the government that ordinary people( as opposed to real criminals) have to worry about such as the IRS are efficient enough.

[andy_card]

Why did Russia have to get involved??? It was basically an internal affair of Austria it had no bearing on the security of the Russian Empire.

It was a mistake. But Russia got involved because Germany got involved. The whole affair should have been a localized dispute between Serbia and Austria. Instead, the Kaiser gave the Austrians their infamous blank check, escalating the conflict. Nicholas II was an idiot, but Kaiser Bill's to blame for the war.

[andy_card]

Im a Monarchist so I don't take any joy in the destruction of Monarchy.

Interesting. I'm a kakistocratic kleptocrat myself. Put me in a position of power, and I'll exploit it solely for personal gain, flagrantly displaying signs of wanton incompetence. Taxation will be high, Swiss banks will be happy, and everyone will hate me.

[andy_card]

If Russia had just not gotten involved and let the Austrians get rid of the Serb terrorist groups( I hope you don't deny that the Black Hand was a terrorist group) the Great War would have been avoided.

Some day, when I have nothing better to do, I will compose a ten-volume introduction to the study of ways the Great War could have been avoided. I think what's important isn't to look for signs of stupidity and incompetence, for they were nearly universal in July and August, 1914, but to try to establish a real causal framework. With that in mind, I think war was rendered practically inevitable by the blank check of 6 July.

[weikel]

I'd have low taxation given that all spending would basically be military. There would be no need for high taxation because there would be no socialistic redistribution schemes in the Weikelian empire( except for the Arabs oil money that would be redistribited after I kill most of the Arabs and take their oil).

[andy_card]

There would be no need for high taxation because there would be no socialistic redistribution schemes in the Weikelian empire

My wealth redistribution scheme would be blatantly crooked, but decidedly unsocialist. Everything would simply go to me.

except for the Arabs oil money that would be redistribited after I kill most of the Arabs and take their oil

That seems a little harsh (reminiscent perhaps of Europe in the late-tenth century or, else, the charming misdeeds of Timur the Great). I, at least, would oppress my subjects equally, without regard to race, gender, religion, ethnicity, place or nation of origin, veteran status, disability status, sexual orientation, etc.

[weikel]

Even so how much would you want to steal. Even if you personally took 100 billion a year for personal use it would still be cheaper then the current government if you eliminated socialism.

[Poohbah]

Actually, the Hapsburgs were going to collapse sooner rather than later (it's why they opted for war in the first place--it seemed the least risky way to deal with the impending crisis). The Hohenzollerns had only one problem, and that was the fact that the words "impulse control" meant absolutely zip to Kaiser Billy Deuce.

[weikel]

Im aware Wilheim was impulsive but Nicholas was both impulsive and stupid which is worse.