Posted on 07/27/2002 11:33:34 AM PDT by swarthyguy
First of all, communism would never had happened in Russia. Thus, there would be no cold war.
Second, Germany would be the ultimate power broker in Europe just like Germany is the strongest economic power in the European Union today. Millions of Europeans died and for what? In the end Europe is united through the European Union with Germany subsizing other European nations.
Third, Israel would not have been created since millions of Jews would able to live in a prosperous Europe, and the relations between the West and the Arab World would be much better since the United States is not a superpower, or global cop that Americans are today.
Forth, since the United States never mobilized for World War I or World War II, then why would the United States ever become a military superpower? The relations throughout the world would be much improved, we would never had joined the United Nations, or any kind of International body. America would be prosperous since we would be more free to trade with the whole world. We would not have to pay for our military, and our welfare state since communism and socialism never took place since there was no World War I.
Finally, The Death of the West would not take place. The Western civilization would be more traditionalist with christian roots, and the cultural marxists would not had gained control of our institutions. So there would be no such problems with immigration that the West have today.
This would be what history would had been like in an alternate Universe. World War I is such a waste, and the West have not been able to fully recover. I know that we would be able to recover if the West somehow discover their desire to live and matter in this world. Until then, it may be the end of the West as we know it. Thanks to the Great War.
Without WWI, the army would be firmly under Romanovs' control. If I remember correctly, the army revolted when there were no food and only one rifle for every three soldiers. (The soldiers would have to pick up weapons from the fallen comrades in battle)
Also, Lenin would still be in exile.
Hooray! Robert Reich and Tommy Daschle are saved again.
It's hard to believe how things went out of control that year!!!!
Anyway, we have to face it, the West is going down, and it will go down hard.
All we can hope is that it won't fully collapse in our lifetimes.
Reading the posts on this thread,I had to realise that ignorrance is IN and logic and common sense are OUT
!
First of all,dear friends ,let`s clear one mistake:
Col. Dragutin Dimitrijevich had a nickname " Apis" because he was a man of powerfull built and looked like Egiptian God Apis(BULL) not bee or wasp!!!He was tall,barel chested,and wery strong.So,forget your insects!Because of his built he was given his name(Apis) by his colleagues while he was a cadet in Military Academy.
Sorry,Catz and Banat!BTW ,you both are nither ignorrant nor without common sense,that remark is for some other posters.
Dear weikel,you haven`t got a clue about WWI and about it`s orrigins!Let me explain some things briefly:
Dear Archeduke Ferdinand didn`t come to Bosnia to hunt or spend a summer holiday:he came to inspect Austrian troops that had just finished a great MILITARY MANOUVERS ON THE BORDERS WITH SERBIA!!WHY?BECAUSE HE WAS A INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE AUSTRIAN ARMY!The manouvers were just an excercise for the INVASION OF SERBIA.
Let me remind you,weikel,that in 1908 Austria-Hungary had broken the Berlin Congress Treaty and ANEXED Bosnia!Furthermore,Austria had imposed trade sanctions against Serbia in 1904 rison being:Serbia dared to sign a Custom Treaty with Bulgaria!And trade with them without Austrian permition!Notty Serbs!It was known as a Pigs War(Serbia was a major exporter of pigs and pork)!Serbia survived!
Your comment about Russia being a culprit is laughable!Austrian archives provide enough evidence,especially correspondence between Count Conrad(father of the plan to invade Serbia) and German Imperial Comand:Austria will invade Serebia and take the town of Nish(the most important crossroad in Balkans:roads to Istanbul; and Middle East and south to Macedonia and Greece)In todays language :Corridors X and VIII!Sound familiar,weikel???Furthermore:Serbia must be included and incorporated into Austro-Hungarian Empire!Her indenpendence must not be tolerated!With the conquest of Serbia Austria and Germany would achieve conmtrol of the vital trafic routes and prevented Russian influence in Balkans?Sound familiar to you,my friend?ALLIED FARCE comes to mind?Yes?No??
About common sense:Serbia had fought and won two consecutive wars (Balkan Wars) in 1912 and 1914!Serbs lost hundreds of thousands of men,country was impoverished,tired,almost bancrupt!According to the Serbian Army repoports from 1914:"Army needs everything....cannons,artillery amunition...there are about dosen different tipes of rifles in service,no standard caliber of ammunition...."Why would a country in that condition go and try to provoke such a mighty enemy like Austrian Empire and Germany????????????Serbia was doing everything to avoid any confrontation with Austria!!Serbia had needed that war just as much as a terminal AIDS patient needs a fight with Mike Tyson!!!!!!!
More:Mlada Bosna(Young Bosnia) was a tiny group of young BOSNIAN MEN,both Serbs and Muslims who resented Aiustrian anexation!They were not CITIZENS OF KINGDOM OF SERBIA and not part of official Serbian politics!Gavrilo Princip was a sickly Serbian student who was DENIED ENTRY INTO SERBIAN ARMY WHEN HE WANTED TO JOIN AS A VOLONTIER FOR THE BALKAN WARS!It is true that Browning pistols and handgranades were given to him and others by Col Dimitrievich-Apis and Vojvoda(Duke) Tankosich of the Serbian Army but as a PRIVATE VENTURE not as a plan of the Serbian army or goverment!For his secret activities and private politics within the army Col Dimitrievich was arrested and tried with the rest of his conspirators on the famous Thessalonika trials,in 1917!And shot!Man had his own way in politics!After all,dear weikel,Apis was a man who assasinated Serbian King Milan Obrenovich and his wife in 1903 and brought Karageorgevich Dinasty back to the trone!So he thought that he has a right to lead his own ,private,Serbian internal and foreign policy!Wrong!But,Serbia paid a hevy price!
BTW,weikwl,if Germany didn`t want a war,why was Germany engaged in an ARMS RACE with Britain????It had nothing to do with resentfull Cousin Willie who didn`t like the fact that his Cousin George has an Empire and he had only Germany????Of course not!Blame the Russians!
One last remark:lets draw the paralel between 1914 and 1999!Same situation:Serbia is,again,pissing against the wind and doesen`t want to "play ball" according to the rules imposed by a conterporary powers!What do we do?We impose IMPOSSIBLE DEMANDS WHICH SOVEREIGN STATE HAS TO REFUSE IN ORDER TO HAVE "CASUS BELLI"!In 1914 Austria demanded that AUSTRIAN POLICE CONDUCT INVESTIGETIONS IN SOVEREIGN SERBIA!IN 1999 NATO DEMANDED FULL FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT IN YUGOSLAVIA(OCCUPATION) IN RAMBOULLIET!Famous Anex of Ramboulliet Treaty not published till last year!Austria attacked Serbia which had agreed to all the demands but the last one!And the Serbs astonished the world by kicking the Austrian ass and sending them back into Bosnia!Serbia was occupied next year when Germans,Austrians And Bulgarians attacked the Serbs jointly!World was in war!In 1999 Great Powers USA,Russia,Germany.....were not in the mood to fight each other so bombing of Yugoslavia didn`t escalate into a wider conflict!
Remember:when the Big Boys want to fight they are just looking for an excuse!
Assasination of Archiduke Ferdinand was a messy affair!Princip&Co were ill prepared and without any military expirience!Before the car with Ferdinand had reached Princip,two or three attempts were made on his life!A hand granade thrown on the car failed to explode(?)another assasin missed.....Then,Ferdinand refused to cut the wisit short and continued.....and he was shot by an amateurish Princip only because his car had to stop!!!
One question for all:
What the history would say if a Mohamed Basic(a Muslim member of Young Bosnia) was succesfull and assasinated the Duke before Gavrilo Princip?????
Austria and Germany are solely responsible for the Great War!
Or,maybe,I am wrong!All those battleships that Kaiser Willie had built were for the SELFDEFENCE against MIGHTY SERBIAN ARMADA!!!The fact that bSerbia didn`t have acces to the sea is ,of course,irrelevant!
Servus,dear!
People could claim that the MOON is made out of cheese and nobody needs to refute it because ALL PEOPLE WITH A WORKING BRAIN, KNOW IT ISN'T TRUE!!
You need to study WWI before you come here and make such outlandish, stupid and idiotic statements.
IT IS UP TO YOU PROVE TO YOUR CLAIMS/IDEAS.... since they are so ODD and "out of step" with those historians who are VERY, VERY learned people!!
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