Rumsfeld: Isael can't transfer territory to terrorist entity

"There is no question" the Palestinian Authority has been involved with terrorist activities, US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said yesterday, echoing the core message of President George W. Bush's June 24 Middle East address. He added he doubted Israel could transfer territory to such an entity.

It would be different "if you are giving it to an entity that has a track record," he said.

Rumsfeld spoke during a question-and-answer session with military and civilian workers, as senior PA officials headed to Washington after consultations with Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer Monday night about a proposed phased Israeli pullback from PA-run areas.

Yesterday, PA Chairman Yasser Arafat conferred with advisers on Israel's idea of an initial pullback from the Gaza Strip should the PA clamp down on terror.

"There were no agreements reached," an Israeli official said of Ben-Eliezer's talks. "The ball right now is in the Palestinians' court. They have to decide whether or not they are willing to make an agreement and stop the terror and the violence.

"We are willing to do a lot to meet their needs, to lift the restrictions, open roads, allow workers in. But all this is contingent upon them upholding their side of the deal."

The idea was received coolly by the PA delegation, which said it would prefer to see troops first pull back from Ramallah, from which Arafat has been running PA affairs.

Ben-Eliezer said that the Gaza Strip could be followed by similar arrangements in Hebron and Bethlehem.

PA Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo doubted the effectiveness of the plan. "It's not logical and not possible that a withdrawal take place in one location, while in another the killing and destruction is still going on," he said.

The talks were suddenly overshadowed by Rumsfeld's comments, the timing and nature of which were unusual.

He appeared to be speaking off the cuff, something senior US officials rarely do when they are discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Rumsfeld also usually defers answering questions about the conflict, saying it is the purview of the State Department.

Nevertheless, he strongly took issue with the Arab claim that the West Bank is "occupied" territory that should be handed over to Palestinian control. He also declined to call on Israel to abandon settlements.

The Bush administration, like previous administrations, has called the more than 200,000 settlers in the West Bank and Gaza an "obstacle to peace."

"My feelings about the so-called occupied territories are that there was a war," Rumsfeld said. "Israel urged neighboring countries not to get involved in it once it started. They all jumped in and they lost a lot of real estate to Israel, because Israel prevailed in the conflict," Rumsfeld said.

Since then, Rumsfeld said, Israel repeatedly has offered to pull back but "at no point has it been agreed upon by the other side."

While Bush has pledged to help create a Palestinian state within three years, Rumsfeld only said "there will be some sort of an entity that will be established," which Israel can deal with securely.

The remarks were certain to please Israel and sting Arab states, which have been lobbying for a US plan for achieving statehood.

The PA delegation that left yesterday includes Interior Minister Abdel Razak al-Yahya, who also oversees security, cabinet minister Saeb Erekat, and Trade and Economics Minister Maher al-Masri.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has approved the Gaza-first plan, while Hamas rejected the idea and said it would continue to resist "occupation."

Present in the security talks Monday night, along with Yahya, were Arafat security adviser Muhammad Dahlan and PA Intelligence chief Amin el-Hindi.

A Palestinian source said Ben-Eliezer could hold an additional meeting with PA security officials while Yahya is in Washington this week.

The delegation is due to meet with senior US officials including Secretary of State Colin Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice tomorrow and Friday. The talks are expected to focus on PA security reform and proposed new PA elections early next year.

"The Americans are very interested in the idea of establishing a cease-fire in a local area and then trying to expand it," one diplomatic source in Washington said. "They want to do it now, particularly because they feel they are behind in outlining a security reform plan. It's the only thing they actually have and they think something can be done there."

US officials would like to see some progress on reform ahead of an international meeting in Paris on August 22. That meeting will follow up a similar recent gathering in London when the international community established seven task forces to nudge along different areas of reform.

Hamas officials said they are skeptical that the PA would be able to implement the security plan without entering a confrontation with it.

"It would not be in the PA's interest to crack down on Hamas... since the movement is very well organized and has a lot of public support in Gaza," one PA source said. The PA must try to bring it under its control through an agreement, convincing Hamas that halting attacks is in the Palestinians' national interest, he added.

The PA also faces problems implementing security in the West Bank, where the Preventive Security Service has been paralyzed ever since Arafat decided to fire its leader Jibril Rajoub. PPS members are boycotting the newly appointed leader Zuhair Mawasra, demanding that either one of their local leaders replace Rajoub or that Arafat reinstate him.

Talk of a phased withdrawal an idea that comes up every several months but is usually scuttled by terror attacks was accompanied yesterday by murmurs that Israel is preparing plans to reconstitute its civil administration in the West Bank, if necessary.

Under the Oslo Accords, that civil administration began to be dismantled. Coordinator of activities in the West Bank and Gaza Maj.-Gen. Amos Gilad, stressed however that there are no plans to fully reoccupy the West Bank, but only to maintain a temporary presence to fight terror.

gotta love rumsfeld and his no nonsense talk. also gotta believe that these words are a preamble to an upcoming invasion, sorta like telling the other arab states that we are going to get sodom and if you get involved, you too could lose some land.

And anyone who thinks there will ever be yet another arab state therein is a fool.

While Bush has pledged to help create a Palestinian state within three years, Rumsfeld only said "there will be some sort of an entity that will be established," which Israel can deal with securely.

Daniel 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Daniel 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

King of Palestine bump.

Has anyone but me noticed that today there was an announcement that the old US consulate north of the Old City in East Jerusalem, which has been for decades the de facto American Embassy to Palestine, is to be closed down very soon, and replaced with a consulate located within Israel in West Jerusalem.

Wow, that looks like we are severing diplomatic relations with "Palestine," looks like such an entity is not long for this world.

Then, with a consulate in Israeli Jerusalem and an embassy in Tel Aviv, all we have to do is switch the labels, switch the door plaques, and we are where we need to be.

The Palestinian state, if there ever is one, can be in Africa.

If there is still any possibility on the agenda three years from now, of a Palestine state in the territory of Eretz Yisroel, ...then the Lord has not spoken by me.

The verses you quote, in the magical way the Bible has of referring to many things at once, still seem to echo the present era even though they refer to machinations of the Syrian, Iraqi, and Turkish caliphs centuries ago. IMO.

Also IMO, we are now already at/past the "time of the end," for the King of the Negeb [Israel/Sharon] has already nudged everyone awake and put the Mideast on the top of everyone's agenda. We are now ready for Bush as Melekh ha-tsafon, to go in and overturn many rulers, and yes, even some of the "land" of one or two of them will not entirely escape [being taken by the USA].

PS It seems to me that in many Mideast languages including Hebrew and Arabic, and even dead languages like Aramaic and Sumerian, the word "Bush" refers to slang terms for the male genitalia, meaning either "penis" or the entire apparatus in general, depending on locale, era, and precise dialect.

>It seems to me that in many Mideast languages including Hebrew and Arabic, and even dead languages like Aramaic and Sumerian, the word "Bush" refers to slang terms for the male genitalia, meaning either "penis" or the entire apparatus in general, depending on locale, era, and precise dialect.

Gardening note: There is shrub or bush called Barberry which is red and has lots of thorns. There is a worse version of it with longer thorns called "Devil's Walking Stick."

And anyone who thinks there will ever be yet another arab state therein is a fool.

You're probably right. No one builds settlements on land they plan to return to someone else. But I wonder what Israel plans to do with the three million or so Palistinians that live in Gaza and the West Bank. You can't shoot them all. Their population growth rate is double that of Israel. They're all mad as hell. What does one do with three million people?

The official described the "Gaza first" plan as a "pilot project." Under it, Israel would ease restrictions in the Gaza Strip in exchange for a cessation of violence, and then apply the model to other cities.
The idea was received coolly by the PA delegation, which said it would prefer to see troops first pull back from Ramallah, from which Arafat has been running PA affairs.

Man, what a loaded deck this is! First off, Gaza is the seat of Hamas, Ramallah is the seat of Arafat. Secondly Gaza has not been "cleaned out" like Arafats strong point. So Israel is saying, we will do a test case in Gaza where they know darn well Hamas will go bonkers when their cage is opened. Israel has just poked that monkey in the eye with a sharp stick by killing their leader. If Hamas agrees to be quiet, their support base will evaporate, as by honor, they have issued a call for revenge and will be seen as JOO controled if they back down now. If they go bonkers, Gaza is shut down and cleaned out. Heads I win, tails you loose. I like it!

The PA of course dread the Controls loosened on Gaza as Arafat is trapped in Ramallah, they know darn well the Hamas will work overtime undermining Arafat authority. If Gaza terrorism is allowed to flourish, the intifadda will divide itself into two camps against itself, if Gaza is cleaned out, the main flow of military arms will be cut off. Again, heads I win, tails you loose.

So Arafat is faced with a choice, agree to another peace deal offer that will cause his main rivals to grow in strength and put the reigns of the intifadda in their hands, or decline a perfectly reasonable offer, don't kill us and we will go away. If Arafat says yes, He looks the fool when the bombs start up again, if he says no, he is directly refusing to halt violence for peace. Har, har, har! I like it! Ole Squatty has been painted in a corner BIG TIME!

My view is that with Israel surrounded by Arab states, but for the Mediterranean Sea, there can NEVER be yet another Arab state jutting into Judea and Samaria (i.e. the "West Bank"), which would effectively cut Israel in half but for its narrow coast.

To effect this view, it is my contention that every Arab individual wishing to remain in what I (and many other Zionists) deem Eratz Yisrael, would, 1)have to conclusively demonstrate NO ties to any terrorist movement or organization whatsoever, and, 2)be REQUIRED TO SWEAR a loyalty oath to the Jewish state.

Any Arab - islamist or otherwise - unwilling to abide by these conditions would be subject to deportation to an actual Arab entity where they could then similarly victimize, cajole or terrorize their Arab "brethren" into giving them this...state of theirs, which they supposedly so highly aspire to.

See how far that takes them.

Of course, I realize this is a minority view...even within Israel, for some strange reason. Yet one that I believe should even all the sooner transpire. For given the historical resistance of Islam to democratize, which is now in fact the US policy for dealing with these so-called "palestinians" (which are really no more than various conglomerations of Arabs that Israel must put-up with for predominantly politically incorrect reasons), I just don't see where Israel, as a nation, is ultimately going to have much choice.

I also feel that the majority of Americans who value their own western, Judeo-Christian heritage would also support this.

But if the US government (especially the State Department) shouldn't then like it, or seem willing to cut Israel off from its "aid", then I still say, yes. Israel should go it alone for its ultimate survival, and trust in Adonai for what will then almost certainly have become the "end times".

Gardening note: There is shrub or bush called Barberry which is red and has lots of thorns. There is a worse version of it with longer thorns called "Devil's Walking Stick."

There is an upright shub variety of euonymus (E. alatus, Winged Euonymus), known as the "burning bush", due to its bright crimson fall color. A local nursery had them on sale last week, and their sign by the road read, "Holy Moses! Burning Bush 20% off".

Bush in modern Hebrew (bet vav shin) spells [bosh] 1 shame, disgrace. 2 embarrassment. 3 to be ashamed, in disgrace. [busha] a feminine noun, also means shame, disgrace.

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