Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Computer Hardware & Software Will Apple Put Intel Inside?
Forbes ^ | 9 Aug 2002 | Arik Hesseldahl

Posted on 08/11/2002 9:46:45 PM PDT by sourcery

NEW YORK - As with many rumors about Apple Computer, this one started with a single sentence uttered by Steve Jobs.

The setting was an analysts meeting in July, where the Apple chief executive outlined his company's financial condition and discussed future plans. He took a question about the possibility that Apple (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ) might one day use chips from Intel (nasdaq: INTC - news - people ) instead of the Motorola (nyse: MOT - news - people ) chips now in its computers.

The answer was classic Jobs: careful, noncommittal and just vague enough to keep people guessing. First, he said, Apple would have to complete its transition from using OS 9, its older, "classic" operating system, to OS X, the new operating system that has given the company new life. "Then we'll have options--and we like to have options," he said.

So what does that mean? If you're Andrew Neff, analyst at Bear Stearns, it means there's a better than 80% chance that within four years Apple will think "less different" and stamp its machine with a brand that says "Intel Inside." Neff made his prediction in a research report on the state of the PC industry released this week.

This kind of talk has touched off a lot of speculation about Apple's long-term plans for the platform. Obsessively tight-lipped, Apple routinely does not comment on future products. But, rumors aside, there are three very good reasons why Apple won't switch from the chip architecture it adopted with the first PowerMac computers in 1994. First of all, it would create new friction for software developers when they already have enough of that with the recent switch to OS. But more importantly, it would needlessly put the Mac directly on a collision course with Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ). Finally, Apple doesn't need to change chips, as the PowerPC family of chips may soon give it all the improvement Apple could ask for.

The argument for shifting chips is based at least in part on the Herculean effort Apple is making to push its user base over to its new operating system. Mac OS X is, at its core, based on Unix, which runs in various flavors on Internet servers all over the Internet. It likely wouldn't take much tweaking to adapt OS X to work with chips from Intel or Advanced Micro Devices (nyse: AMD - news - people ).

A shift would give Apple two chip vendors who are primarily focused on the PC industry. Motorola and IBM (nyse: IBM - news - people ) jointly developed the PowerPC, and both have supplied Apple over the years. But both have sold more to other customers than to Apple. Motorola, for example, has sold PowerPC chips to Ericsson (nyse: ERICY - news - people ) and Cisco Systems (nasdaq: CSCO - news - people ).

And it would certainly give Apple a marketing boost when it comes to chip speed. The current generation of PowerPC chips are topped out at a clock speed of 1 gigahertz, while Intel chips are due to break the 3-GHz barrier before the end of the year. While comparing the clock speeds of both chips is an apples and oranges problem--powerPC chips are faster and better at certain kinds of computing tasks--potential buyers are often turned off by the lower speed rating. Adopting Intel chips might eliminate that problem.

But it would create another one, most notably among Apple's software developers. After years of building software for the older operating system, they're either still in the process of adapting their software to the new OS or have just completed it. Switching to another chip would require a whole new round of rebuilding, or "porting," existing applications to work on the other chip. Plus supporting older or "legacy" applications that have run on the Mac for years would create a whole new set of problems.

The PowerPC has a lot to do with what makes a Mac distinctly different from a Windows-based PC. Most of the other components inside a Mac--the hard drive, the memory chips and often the graphics processors--are no different from what you find in a PC. Once there's a motherboard with an Intel or AMD chip in there, what's to stop a user from installing Linux--or dare we suggest it?--Microsoft's Windows on an Apple computer? Very little, it seems.

And therein lies the biggest reason that Apple will stick with the PowerPC chip for the foreseeable future. It doesn't want to go head-to-head with Microsoft.

Even though its advertising campaign is aimed at convincing frustrated Windows users to switch to the Mac, at best Apple can only hope to erode Microsoft's share of the computing world by a fraction of a percentage point. An insignificant downward shift for Microsoft would mean real progress for Apple. But advertising aside, Apple's platform still exists on the periphery of the computing world, and its sales still account for less than 3% of the world's PC market share, according to market research firm IDC.

"By saying its machines are a separate OS on a separate platform, Apple can say it doesn't compete directly with Microsoft," says Kevin Krewell, analyst with MicroDesign Resources. "Moving to an Intel or AMD platform would put them directly in Microsoft's crosshairs, and that is something Apple should not want to do."

Finally, there's a good reason Apple may want to stick with the PowerPC. In October, IBM will unveil a new 64-bit version of the PowerPC chip, aimed at desktops and low-end servers, at the annual Microprocessor Forum in San Jose, Calif. By moving to 64 bits, the chip can address a great deal more memory than the current generation of 32-bit chips, allowing the chip to make faster work of complex computing tasks.

IBM hasn't been a major supplier to Apple recently, but it just opened a new chip factory or "fab" in upstate New York--a fab it would like to see very busy.

"I think you'll see IBM going after business from Apple much more aggressively that it has in the past," Krewell says.

While Apple has made no public commitment to using IBM's forthcoming chip, it certainly gives it another option to increase the performance of its computers. And as Steve Jobs has said, Apple likes options.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Technical
KEYWORDS: macuserlist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-25 last
To: mykej
Apple know more than any OS company out there about UI, but they have a horrible track record for writing software that runs anywhere but on a tightly controlled system.

Writing for Intel does increase one's problems exponentially, because now you also have to troubleshoot someone's hardware configuration. And you're right, to be efficient, Apple writes its OS with a deep knowledge of the hardware. This may not necessarily translate to the same performance against two different Intel boxes.

I can't say if Apple is as bad as Be when it comes to knowledge of the hardware, but I was extremely disappointed in BeOS. It was so cool and had so much promise, but I couldn't get it to install on one of my systems. I bought at a CompUSA 2 Toshiba Infinias on the same day. I installed BeOS on one, it worked like a champ. It would never install on the other one. I spent hours and hours and hours trying to figure it out- after consultation with Be, it turned out that there was a tiny rev difference in the chipset between the 2 machines. That was enough to make BeOS install on one Toshiba and not on the other. No wonder Be never made it! If Apple is that dependent on the hardware, it will never make it in the Intel arena.

Still, this is not rocket science. There should be a way to write an OS that can work in either Intel or Motorola environments - that is, assuming Apple wanted to do that.

21 posted on 08/12/2002 8:04:27 AM PDT by Utopia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: sourcery
So , would it then be correct to say that those who have both a PC and a Mac "swing both ways"?

I think you could safely say that. Or if they don't now, it's just a matter of time. ;-p
22 posted on 08/12/2002 10:11:45 AM PDT by Bush2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: sourcery
What Apple should do, and very well may do, is to port OSX to the x86, and sell it as an alternative to Windows/Linux.

I can't see many software makers rushing to rebuild their software for yet another combination of OS and hardware with no tangible market except the PC-users-who-hate-Microsoft-enough-to-shoot-themselves-in-the-foot.

23 posted on 08/12/2002 12:53:13 PM PDT by balrog666
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Utopia
I can't say if Apple is as bad as Be when it comes to knowledge of the hardware, but I was extremely disappointed in BeOS.

On the other hand it ran like a bat out of hell (for the era) on a stock HP Pavilion 83**. R5 which was the last version I used ran circles around my friends' custom built boxes that had athlon 600-700s running WinNT/2k on my old 8390 which had a P2 450 and 128mb of ram.

24 posted on 08/12/2002 2:51:46 PM PDT by dheretic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: sourcery
going to Intel would probably burden Apple more than anything. First, the lack of chip competition resulting would hurt Apple more than it would benefit the overall scheme of balancing OS power, hardware power, chip power and internet/raw clustering power. Being slaved to Intel is not the solution, to harness it maybe, in, say, an OS capable of working with it, but not for it.

The ability to cluster Apple/PowerPc chips at the software level would be much better at exponentialy boosting Apple machines powers than investing all that $$ into a software retooling to AMD/Intel, making us slaves of chips instead of balancing ease of use, power expandability and scalability. Once you have a chip, all you need is to know how to use them. It does not matter how big they are, just as they are reasonably functionable and within the latest RISC technology.

http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-09/2002c-0913-rop-clustering.phtml


Anthony Frausto-Robledo (afrausto@architosh.com)
13 Sep 2002

Reader Opinion: Apple needs OS-level clustering, G5 and more bandwidth

One of our more astute and 'busy bee' readers wrote in to comment on follow-up emails we have been plowing through. It seems our discussions have come full circle on a number of critical issues to Apple and its goals in the high-performance markets, such as 3D and animation. I have assured this reader -- like many others who are very critical of Apple's progress at this moment -- that our beloved platform will once again (clearly) reign supreme over x86 in sheer application performance.

The G5 and G4 Debacle

Our reader wrote in to say: "And you are right in saying that Apple REALLY NEEDS the G5 and it needs it yesterday. Apple MUST leapfrog the competition with respect to speed." "They need a fast machine that will be able to compete with any of Intel's future offerings."

As it turns out now, we have been able to confirm that our information on the G5 test boxes late last year were more or less right. At that time Motorola was a bit ahead of schedule on the G5, and there were over-clocked versions running as high as 2.5Ghz.These were early test versions. Unfortunately, for reasons we can't touch upon here, the G5 progress was stalled. It should be noted that, most sites -- including ours -- were dead wrong in predicting when the Mac would get a genuine G5. The G5 development team had planned for a 2003 volume delivery, despite published PowerPC road maps.

We understand that Motorola was absolutely right in stating a ways back that there was plenty of life left in the G4 architecture. And we will likely see two more iterations of the G4 over the next year or year and a half. We understand that there is a Motorola MPC7460 and MPC7470 in the works. Those processors may involve a 0.13 micron process, support for faster bus frequencies and other changes in addition to greater overall chip frequencies.

The bottom line is that while Intel (especially) may be pulling way ahead in megahertz frequencies, Apple is making significant motherboard architecture improvements that will allow the G4 architecture to reach its maximum performance. The current crop of Power Macs involve these performance enhancing changes. For those waiting for the G5 before they upgrade their gear...you may be waiting a long time. Keep in mind that the new dual 1.25Ghz model has a peak performance of 18.3 gigaflops. That's more than 490 percent faster than a 500Mhz G4.

Clustering in Future Mac OS X Versions

There is currently a notion going around that the next core after Jaguar will be clusterizable (if that's a word) at the system level. Our reader reports: "If you recall, a couple of years ago I opened a dialogue with Dean Dauger (Think: Pooch / AppleSeed) and he did say at the time that Apple is considering using these technologies on the OS level. I'm certain that it's only a matter of time before we have plug-n-play clustering."

These notions play out very well with a number of items reported on this site and elsewhere. For starters, we too covered the Pooch technology and spoke to Dean Dauger. We were also informed of Apple's hush-hush Studio Summit, if indeed that is what it was called. There Apple solicited advice on what it would take to get major studios to adopt Mac OS X as their primary creative platform. From our source there were a number of key items requested, some of which have been met:

A Rack Mount Server which could allow for clustering for Render Farms
Greater Bandwidth on the motherboard
Faster Processors
Faster Graphics Cards (a workstation class card) and faster Graphics
easy plug&play clustering software built-into the OS
Industry leading OpenGL support: As in Jaguar OpenGL
According to our source the rack mount server was one of the most popular items requested because big studios need inexpensive render farm solutions. They also need storage. Both of those items are being or have been fulfilled by Apple (as in the new Xserve).

As for faster RAM and more performance on the motherboard? Well, the latest Power Macs demonstrate that Apple has the ability to be innovative and re-architecture the entire system to take advantage of inexpensive RAM. As for graphics cards, ATI came back with a vengeance with their Radeon 9700 card, and Apple has executed a major innovation in the way Quartz operates and is accelerated with Jaguar OpenGL.

What remains to be completed is an easy to configure clustering software built-into the Mac OS's API structure so that developers can take advantage of it. With such an addition, fx studios, 3D graphics professionals and architects can take advantage of multiple Xserves and the home brew clustering of Power Macs running the latest Mac OS. Pooche is a way to do this today, but it still needs apps to be aware of it...and Pooche is not really true plug & play technology.

The Motherboard Issue

Currently the Power Macs' motherboard bandwidth is limited, compared to AMD and Intel systems. As some have speculated, the current G4 processor is to blame there. Faster DDR RAM support will come with a newer G4 processor. The main system bus should improve over time, but Apple's innovative motherboard architecture doesn't necessitate Apple maintaining frequency parity with x86 systems.

In short, the requests of power users like our reader, that assume that a G5 is what is needed to keep Apple ahead, is partially wrong. Apple will stay ahead of the performance curve through balanced system design and innovation, with and without the G5.

25 posted on 09/18/2002 1:57:18 AM PDT by lavaroise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-25 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson