Pentagon Discusses Chemical Weapons To Calm Rioters Critics Say Idea Is Illegal

WRAL-TV ^ | Sept. 25, 2002 | AP

[Overtaxed]

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. military is exploring ways to use drugs such as Valium to calm people without killing them during riots or other crowd control situations where lethal weapons are inappropriate.

Some critics say the effort violates international treaties and federal laws against chemical weapons, an allegation the military denies.

[Overtaxed]

< tinfoil >

[banjo joe]

Q: are they expecting riots here?

Q: will military intervention be required?

Q: are these merely contingency plans?

[Overtaxed]

What do they know, and when did they know it? :)

[harpseal]

Instead of something like valium to calm people down I for one favor using .5obmg rounds to calm the rioters. After one or two hits from the business end of an M2 very few people will continue to engage in rioting. Further, the cost of the .50BMG rounds is far less than some chemical agent. I fail to understand the desire for a non-leathal means of stopping rioters.

[Overtaxed]

My thoughts exactly.

[boris]

John W. Campbell foresaw all of this--and promoted it as humane--in an editorial in Analog Science Fiction in the 1970s. Sorry, I cannot cite the exact issue.

He basically argued that agents that make all combatants (on the military field) or rioters "just sit down" would be humane. He proposed stuff like tranquilizers or agents that lower the blood pressure to the point where the combatant(s) can't stand up but must lie prone or sit.

--Boris

[posterkid]

I fail to understand the desire for a non-leathal means of stopping rioters.

Do you TRUST the government? Do you believe that rioters are the only crowds they would seek to disperse? Do you trust everyone who may at one point be in the government? What about when they decide to drug rallies? What if it is a rally you agree with?

I'm imagining an NRA Million-Gun-March on the Washington Mall... after which the military/natguard dopes you all with valium or something else...

[SandfleaCSC]

If they decide in favor of using valium to intoxicate and incapacitate rioters, it will be an error of gigantic proportions. Can you imagine it, every day the streets will flow with thousands upon thousands of Libertarians rioting for the sole reason of getting stoned for free.

[Mr. Bird]

If the US military becomes evil enough, and out of control enough, to start engaging its own citizens, my last concern is being shot with a dart gun that makes me sleepy.

I would imagine this type of thing is being considered for Somalia type situations, where we are engaged in close combat with quasi-civilian/unarmed participants. Seems like a decent idea, if you aren't going to shoot to kill, that is....

[laker_dad]

What was the sci-fi novel that had Soma as the drug to calm the masses? (vague recollection from many years ago)

[posterkid]

It makes sense for the Somalia type of uses.

But they day they use it on people here get ready for something big.

[posterkid]

What was the sci-fi novel that had Soma as the drug to calm the masses? (vague recollection from many years ago)

Aldous Huxley's _Brave New World_.

[RonF]

Just take all the marijuana that's uselessly confiscated from drug dealers in the WOSD, put it in burners, and blow the smoke through the crowd. Set up a live rock band, get them playing, and pretty soon you'll have a street party. Hell, I'll start a riot every weekend.

[Chemist_Geek]

"It's a rotten idea to drug rioters," said Edward Hammond of the Sunshine Project, a chemical and biological weapons watchdog group that is the program's chief critic. "Beyond being a horrible idea, it's illegal."

Oh please. We'll just have to shoot them then. You'll complain and whine just as much about that, won't you Mr. Hammond? Sheesh, some people...

There was talk of an audio frequency projector which broadcast over loudspeakers facing the crowd. There are specific frequencies which the projector sends, and when humans are exposed to those frequencies, they suffer from nearly instantaneous projectile vomiting and diarrhea. It's rather difficult to continue to riot under such circumstances.

Of course, we couldn't deploy that device either, without having Mr. Hammond whining about public hygiene and the destruction of the rioters' dignity...

[Overtaxed]

Don't they burn confiscated marijuana already? I seem to recall that a local police force once confiscated a huge amount of the stuff and didn't know what they were going to do with it. :)

All I can say is keep that smoke out of my yard. It stinks to high heavens!

[Overtaxed]

There are specific frequencies which the projector sends, and when humans are exposed to those frequencies, they suffer from nearly instantaneous projectile vomiting and diarrhea.

Ewwww! That would leave a big mess to clean up.

[harpseal]

Do you TRUST the government?

Generally I do not. I believe the US Constitution is clear on the point that the citizens should not trust the government.

Do you believe that rioters are the only crowds they would seek to disperse?

Do you trust everyone who may at one point be in the government?

Obviously I do not.

What about when they decide to drug rallies? What if it is a rally you agree with?

These are all arguments for making leathal force the means of dispersing riots. If the government sharts shooting down peaceful protestors there is perforce then a civil war in progress. Since the decision to open full hostilities against a substantial portion of the populace is far more grave than the decision to medicate them so they calm down it tends to limit the government's wi;;ingness to take that step. The fact that the people being repressed generally do have the means to resist makes that decision even more difficult to make. Thus we as a nation maintain rule of law with the liberty to dissent and enjoy those rights enumerated in our Constitution.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[posterkid]

Insightful reply.

But when the 2nd American revolution comes (hopefully not in either of our lifetimes), I would much prefer that govt goons have to shoot me and those around me, rather than simply put on gas masks and take us out with one big cloud.

Regardless, if this is for military use, I certainly endorse it over more violent means. I'm just worried by visions of non-violent protestors being gassed for the sheer convenience of it.

[laker_dad]

Thanks, that would have bugged me all day...

[posterkid]

Find a copy of the South Park episode "The Brown Noise" and watch it, to see just what could happen. :)