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What was the Mexicans' version of the Alamo attack?
SD ^ | CECIL ADAMS

Posted on 09/26/2002 12:00:32 PM PDT by Sir Gawain

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To: Sir Gawain
Bull! The defenders of the Alamo stood against overwhelming odds knowing that they were fighting a hopeless battle. The very act of standing their ground under those circumstances was an act of heroism.
21 posted on 09/26/2002 1:45:54 PM PDT by Destructor
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To: Sir Gawain
There are a number of facts that most people don't know. The mission at the Alamo was virtually indefensible and part of this could be blamed on the Texicans who were trying to defend it. One wall had been seriously breached days by a cannon ball days before the actual assault; the defenders patched it by hammering boards together - with the ends sticking up and outward, essentially providing the Mexicans with a stepladder into the mission.

More important is the fact that Sam Houston had, days earlier, ordered the mission evacuated, the men there to join his own army further north; by defying his order the men of the Alamo were staging a sort of mutiny.

Although it is very common, north of the Rio Grande, to regard Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana as a deep dyed villain, but to Mexicans he is their George Washington. It was Santa Ana who played a vital role in ousting the Spanish and later Maximillan from Mexico. He was president, or generalissimo, of Mexico a number of times. In fact, it was Santa Anna who triggered the Texas War for Independence by abolishing slavery ... the defenders of the Alamo were defending the institution of slavery.

Despite the ugliness of the Siege of the Alamo, the US govt allowed Santa Ana to stay in the US in his two or three exiles between presidencies. One of his last US sojourns was on Staten Island, NY. He brought with him from Mexico a bitter root that he enjoyed chewing. He called it chickle ... his secretary, a man named Adams, used it to invent chewing gum.

22 posted on 09/26/2002 1:57:56 PM PDT by DonQ
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To: DonQ
Oh, that is most fascinating.

I look forward to seeing the new movie, when it's released in 2004.

www.alamothemovie.com
23 posted on 09/26/2002 2:06:52 PM PDT by TamiPie
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To: montomike
Santa Ana replaced that leg with a wooden one and we took it away from him at San Jacinto.

Sometime during the late 70's or eary 80's the state of Texas traded the leg for the Alamo battle flag that was kept Mexico.

24 posted on 09/26/2002 2:07:44 PM PDT by Deguello
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To: DonQ
"More important is the fact that Sam Houston had, days earlier, ordered the mission evacuated, the men there to join his own army further north; by defying his order the men of the Alamo were staging a sort of mutiny."

I was taught in High School Texas History that Col. Travis made the stand at the Alamo to buy Sam Houston's Army more time to assemble volunteers to face Santa Ana.

I'm left wondering about your motives in cheapening a great act of heroism by referring to it as "a sort of mutiny."

25 posted on 09/27/2002 5:34:17 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: montomike
Santa Ana also lost a leg and then gave himself a very nice funeral for it!

Somehow that leg is now in Illinois.

26 posted on 09/27/2002 5:46:04 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Destructor
The usual story is that the stand at the Alamo was to "buy time" for Houston, but the Alamo was hardly an obstruction to Santa Ana's army. The Mexican Army could easily have skirted around it, leaving the Texans inside looking like deserters from Houston's forces. Exactly why Santa Ana made a point of stopping in San Antonio and laying siege to the mission is conjectural; he may have wanted a quick victory to encourage his troops, he may have wanted to make an example to intimidate other Texans, etc.

Yes, the Texans at the Alamo had received a direct order from Houston clearly instructing them to abandon the mission and join the main Texas forces, and they deliberately disobeyed it.

27 posted on 09/27/2002 6:02:19 AM PDT by DonQ
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To: DonQ
Small clarification: Chickle is the rubbery, gummy sap (not root) of a tree that grow in southern Mexico.
28 posted on 09/27/2002 6:46:30 AM PDT by 3AngelaD
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To: DonQ
"Yes, the Texans at the Alamo had received a direct order from Houston clearly instructing them to abandon the mission and join the main Texas forces, and they deliberately disobeyed it."

So what? The defenders of the Alamo died for the cause of freeing Texas from Mexico. Besides, there's no way of knowing at what point the defenders actually got the message from Sam Houston. It's not like they had radios, or cell phones in those days.

29 posted on 09/27/2002 9:56:42 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: FITZ
The Illinois leg was captured during the War with Mexico, when some guys from my hometown, on a patrol out behind the Mexican army, came across Santa Ana's camp. The general fled, leaving behind his dinner and his leg.
30 posted on 09/27/2002 11:22:05 AM PDT by Heyworth
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To: Deguello
I believe that Mexico still retains the Alamo battle flag. Perhaps you are thinking of another flag.

There are a number of historic artifacts that remain in Mexico. A painting of a siege in this region was given (back???) to Mexico a couple of years ago (it used to reside in the Houston MFA).

31 posted on 10/14/2002 9:34:56 AM PDT by weegee
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To: 3AngelaD
THE SAGA OF THE CHEWING GUM

The origin of the chewing gum may be traced since prehistoric times when man first chewed on gristle to the days when people chewed home-made spruce resin and beeswax gum. With the discovery that gum could be made from chicle, the elastic sap of the sapodilla tree, which Mayan Indians had been chewing for centuries, chewing gum quickly became a modern fad. However, there was a downside to this.

The habit of gum chewers of sticking wads of chewed gum on everything leaving a gooey mess in public places became irritating. In Singapore, when gum was found stuck on seats, doors and floors of the Mass Rapid Transit trains on which the state had made heavy investments causing headaches to the managers of public places and cleaners who had to scrape gum off, it was felt that something had to be done. It was compounded by the fact that most ordinary cleansing fluids were just incapable of removing chewing gum and this led to the drastic step of legislation to eliminate the problem.

On 1st December 1995, the Regulation of Imports And Exports (Chewing Gum) Regulations was enacted under the Regulation of Imports and Exports Act Cap. 272A prohibiting the import into Singapore of any chewing gum. Chewing gum is defined under the Regulations to cover any substance usually known as chewing gum, bubble gum, dental chewing gum or any like substance prepared from a gum base of vegetable or synthetic origin and intended for chewing. The penalty for infringement for a first offender is a fine up to $100,000 or to imprisonment up to 2 years or both.

Chewing gum can now only be imported for the purposes of transit to or from Malaysia or for transhipment and the importer for transit to Malaysia has to ensure that any consignment of chewing gum would be escorted to the Woodlands Customs checkpoint under lock and seal. With the recent opening of the second link to Malaysia, the rules for thus securing consignments for transit to Malaysia have since 2nd January 1998 been extended to those passing through the Tuas Customs checkpoint by an amendment to the Regulations.


32 posted on 10/14/2002 9:47:06 AM PDT by weegee
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To: Destructor
It is all part of the grand tradition of turning into heroes those senselessly killed in battle.

The Charge of the Light Brigade (immortalized in the Lord Tennyson poem) and the Alamo legend are similar in that they use heroic mythology to shield us from recognizing the waste of life that is war. There are innumerable other examples. The loss of 3000 of 5000 Canadian soldiers at Dieppe--a failed percursor to D-Day--has similarly been turned into a story of heroism because "so much was learned that made D-Day successful".


Rather than say: "These men were needlessly sacrificed largely due to poor decision-making by military leaders", we instead say "they died heroically fighting for a great cause" because it makes their loss more palatable.
33 posted on 10/14/2002 9:50:39 AM PDT by Pitchfork
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To: DonQ
I was at the Alamo two weeks ago and saw the "most historic" IMAX film of the six-day seige and final destruction. I spent about 4 hours at the museum learning, as I knew little of the history.

An order from Sam Houston to evacuate was not mentioned anywhere in the movie nor on any historical markers at the Alamo historical site. The letter from the fort commander asking for help was mentioned as one of two denied requests that he made for troops from a fort about two days journey away.

It also mentioned that all defenders were killed during the battle.

300 or so men were captured at a later battle and 10% were subsequently executed at the request of Santa Ana (chosen by drawing black beans or white beans from a hat)- against the pleadings of his commanders to not execute men who had surrendered. No mention was made of 6 defenders being executed.

34 posted on 10/14/2002 10:03:12 AM PDT by NorthGA
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To: Pitchfork
"Remember the Alamo"

"Remember the Maine"

"9/11 - never forget"

35 posted on 10/14/2002 10:21:50 AM PDT by weegee
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To: Pitchfork
Leftist propaganda aside- fighting for Freedom is always "a good cause." The defenders of the Alamo were all heroes that "died heroically fighting for a good cause!" That's it-that's that!!

If you're not willing to defend you're own country, then the least you can do is support those that are willing to defend it!

36 posted on 10/14/2002 10:35:08 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: weegee
They might still have the flag. I remember back in the 70's when we were using Santa Anna's wooden leg for leverage to to get the flag back. I'm not sure where the leg is now.
37 posted on 10/14/2002 11:05:46 AM PDT by Deguello
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To: Deguello
Maybe we traded the leg to another state for a Nolan Ryan rookie card and some early Dr. Pepper bottles.

You know, something important!

38 posted on 10/14/2002 12:08:28 PM PDT by weegee
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