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How Moscow courted terror
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | October 26 2002

Posted on 10/25/2002, 4:06:00 PM by dead

The tentacles of international terrorism may well have reached Moscow with heavily armed Chechen rebels holding hundreds of civilians hostage inside a suburban theatre, as the Russian President Vladimir Putin was quick to assert. But while al-Qaeda operatives are believed to have recently lent their support to the Muslim separatists responsible for the Moscow assault, the Chechens' cause is nationhood, not "jihad". As such, Wednesday's attack - kilometres from the Kremlin - resoundingly mocks President Putin's claim of a decisive military victory in Chechnya, an oil-rich Muslim enclave which has resisted Russian rule since the tsars' time. For the global "war on terrorism", the Moscow hostage crisis highlights the sobering reality that no security operation alone can shut terrorist networks down.

One of the most serious global security problems post-September 11 is the existence of numerous localised conflicts which may find their expression in terrible acts of violence, emboldened by terrorists attacks elsewhere. The potential for tragedy at the Moscow theatre is high. The rebels have strapped explosives to their bodies and proclaimed their readiness to die if Russian troops are not withdrawn from Chechnya. Hundreds of Russian civilians have died in terrorist attacks blamed on Chechnyan rebels since independence was proclaimed in 1991, after the collapse of the Soviet Union. A brief period of de facto self-government was marked by gang violence and kidnappings. The actions of the rebels in Moscow have been condemned around the world. But, as a spokesman for the European Union pointed out, the fate of the hostages is inextricably linked to Russia's failure to find a political solution for Chechnya.

President Putin came to power promising to end the protracted Chechen conflict and quickly committed 80,000 Russian troops. The Russians literally fought their way in, hectare by hectare, eventually emptying and razing the capital, Grozny. Thirty thousand Chechens died; hundreds of thousands were forced from their homes. Western governments and human rights organisations documented mass executions, torture, rape, and widespread looting of homes by Russian troops. Mr Putin installed a pro-Moscow administration in January last year. The only success Putin could claim, however, was to have contained the chaos and bloodshed to within Chechnya's distant borders. Containment has now failed.

The US-led "war on terrorism" offered Mr Putin a respite from international pressure over ongoing human rights abuses inside Chechnya. A more immediate threat was identified in the al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and Washington wanted unprecedented permission to stage US forces out of Tajikistan, and four other former Soviet republics in Central Asia. In exchange, the US acknowledged Russia's own "terrorist threat" in Chechnya and fell silent over human rights. But it is those same abuses which have driven more and more civilians to the Chechen rebels' side. To deny al-Qaeda and the like sanctuary in the remote Chechen mountains, a more durable peace must be sought - one which offers the Chechen people participation, not repression.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
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the Chechens' cause is nationhood, not "jihad".

Bullsh|t! They’re letting the Muslims leave and talking about the upcoming murder of hundreds of "infidels."

More "can't we just learn to love the terrorists" crapola from the blinkered world of leftist journalism - this time Aussie-style.

1 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:06:00 PM by dead
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To: dead
Nationhood my ass! Name one friggin' Islamic country that's an example of stability, prosperity and freedom. Just one! This is all Jihad - mindless killing in the name of that murderous moon god.
2 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:09:59 PM by USMMA_83
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To: dead
This is pathetic. Haven't Australians learned *anything* from Bali?
3 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:15:52 PM by valkyrieanne
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To: dead
What a crock. ex-President Dudayev dissolved the Chechen Duma in 1993 when it wanted a negotiated settlement with Russia. Ever since, the fundametalists have held the real power in Chechnya. The election of Makshadov was a sham.

The US administration can put the squeeze on Saudia Arabia, Kuwait etc. to cut off their funding for the rebels too if not more...

If Putin has any sense, he will find out who the terrorist are and get their families. If the terrorists start killing hostages, the family members get executed. It's not legal, but it will work. There are several cases of Chechen civilians being kidnapped by Chechen criminals and being release when the family of those kidnapped have got hold of the criminals' relatives.

I also assume that all the radio frequencies have been jammed so that the explosives can't be detonated remotely (a la N. Ireland).

VRN

4 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:16:23 PM by Voronin
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To: dead
Perhaps my timeline is wrong but did not the Chechens already have independence at one point? So then why did they blow up that apartment building and attack Dagestan? What act of oppression required the Chechens to take hostages in a hospital? What provocation forced the Chechens to allow Al-Queda a haven there? I guess some people just don't know what to do with themselves when the actually get what they want.
5 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:17:31 PM by Dialup Llama
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To: dead
You are wrong about this one, dead. It is true that the current leaders are anti-Christian and anti-Jewish. It is true also that they have formed alliance with Arab terrorists and have some in their midst.

BUt their objective has been the same for 170 or so years, since the Russian Tsar grabbed that land, which had never theretofre been Russian. Chechen resistance since then was amazing and heroic. Nothing stopped them, not even when KGB burned some of them alive.

If they gained independence, I suspect we would see Taliban-like government. That, however is after the fact: their objective is independence.

6 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:20:45 PM by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
The Chechens had effective independence for four years, from 1995 to 1999. During that time, they crossed their borders to rape, pillage, kidnap and destabilize the moderate Muslim republics of Russia, Dagestan, Ingushetia and Ossetia. Internally, the Chechen government totally lacked control over armed mobs who kidnapped and used ethnic Russians as slaves and took five Brit telecom technicians for ransom. When it was paid, they cut off their heads and put them on stakes on the side of the road. There are good reasons why this bunch must never become independent, it would be a showcase for nutcase Islamists and a haven for AlQaeda.
7 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:31:59 PM by laconic
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To: TopQuark

Todays Hostage Commentary Thread


8 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:32:30 PM by Naspino
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To: Dialup Llama
Correct. They can't stay in their own country and live peaceably. That's why the Russians had to go back in.

Suits the US "powers that be" for the "poor Chechen freedom fighters" to keep up their mayhem in that part of the world -- US controls Europe's oil supply, and want to keep it that way. Can't have that pesky Russian pipeline messing that up! Especially as we built Bondsteel right on top of the proposed pipeline from the Caspian which will run to the Albanian port of Flores.

Russian perspective is to (1) stop Chechen terrorism (their culture has always been essentially a terrorist one, with a tradition of kidnapping for ransom going way back, for example)and (2) secure that pipeline route.

9 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:40:03 PM by wonders
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To: dead
the Chechens' cause is nationhood, not "jihad".

The Confederacy's cause was nationhood.

What's going on in Russia is a civil war. Plenty of countries have been conqered and absorbed into another country. 170 years is ancient history as far as this type of thing goes (a lot of countries are no where near 170 years old.)

Neither of us may like it, but the fact is raw power has been the main factor in determining countries boundrys throughout most of world history.

10 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:40:05 PM by Brookhaven
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To: Voronin
Putin has any sense, he will find out who the terrorist are and get their families. If the terrorists start killing hostages, the family members get executed. It's not legal, but it will work.

What makes continuing occupation of Chechnya so legal, Mr. Voronin?

Reminds me of the song you used to have during WWII, wtih the words, "We won't give up even an inch of our land." THe problem with the Russian Empire, whether under commnists or the tsars, was that "our land" meant POland, Chechnya and the Caucus, Crimea, later Angola and Chile.

What business did Russia ever had being Chechnya?

11 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:46:38 PM by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
If they gained independence, I suspect we would see Taliban-like government.

Nah, we'd see the same type of "government" they had 1995-1999, the same type of "government" as the KLA terrorist narco-mafia in Kosovo, only worse.

Maybe you should go join up with these "heroic freedom fighters" you admire so much. When they imprison you in a pit in the ground and demand a big bucks ransom from your family, you might start to change your opinion of them.

12 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:46:55 PM by wonders
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To: laconic
The Chechens had effective independence for four years, from 1995 to 1999. It must be you and the Russian government that considered that independence effective.

Why not pull up the stakes and leave? Than land has never been Russian and has never been Christian. It was annexed out of greed. Return it to their owners. If they violate your borders after that, then deal with it without mercy if necessary.

13 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:50:46 PM by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
What business did Russia ever had being Chechnya?

More business than the US has being in Korea, Turkey, Japan, Cuba, former Yugoslavia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait,Afghanistan....

If Yemen were located say, where Ontario is, and the folks there refused to stay in their own country and were terrorising New England and neighbouring Canadian provinces, don't you think the US would go in there and "pacify" them?

14 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:54:57 PM by wonders
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To: wonders
Maybe you should go join up with these "heroic freedom fighters" you admire so much.

See, there you give yourself away: the word "principle" has not visited your mind; you only understand taking sides with someone.

There is no question that these people are fearless, even your own author, Lermontov, has noted that. It is also well known that they have consistently resisted Russian occupation --- perhaps more than any other in the Trans-Caucus colony --- ooops, I meant province --- of the Russian Empire.

Now, is there any principle you can offer or are you motivated purely by the particular rights of Mother Russia to foreign lands?

15 posted on 10/25/2002, 4:57:14 PM by TopQuark
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To: wonders
Thank you: I received my answer.

I expected it to come out fully, and it did. You do have particular rights to other people's lands. "We won't give up an inch of our native foreign land."

Are you an American citizen? I am just curious? DO you even know what ideals of this country are? Never mind ideals --- do you even know what law is?

Or, are you as your Tsar Peter who spend quite some time abrad, learning shipbuiling. He has learned that alright but remained completely oblivious to the notion of freedom and human decency that were so evident in everything around him.

Thank you for writing. Enjoy your stay.

16 posted on 10/25/2002, 5:03:16 PM by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
First of all, I'm not Russian, have no Russian or Slavic blood. Born in Tennessee, and family roots on both sides go back to 1620s/1640s colonists from Britain.

I do have principle. You're the one "taking sides" and getting all romantic over those people. Russia has a right to secure borders and regional stability. The Chechens are not a stable bunch of people, to put it mildly. If Russia could build some impentrable wall around Chechnya so that those thugs could NEVER get out to perpetrate violence on their neighbours, I suspect they would do so, and let them have their miserable little country.

Sorry, the history of violence of the Chechens is against you -- and them.

Speaking of "historical rights" maybe we should give the US back to the Native Americans, huh?

PS: They're no more "heroic" than any other violent criminal. Apparently you think it's "heroic" to hold unarmed civilians and shoot women, like they're doing right now. Again, you love their "cause" so much, why don't you go join up with them? I'm sure they wouldn't mind taking on another hostage.

17 posted on 10/25/2002, 5:08:12 PM by wonders
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To: vooch; smokegenerator; DTA; joan; A. Pole; Destro; F-117A; Wraith; kosta50; getoffmylawn; ...
Thought you might like to have a look at this Aussie article.
18 posted on 10/25/2002, 5:22:55 PM by wonders
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To: TopQuark
I'm not Russian either, but I have to admit I have a a Russian fiance and a lot of Russian friends, whom I find much preferable to either Europeans or homegrown Ivy Leaguers. Further Chechen history: substantial numbers of them were Nazi collaborators in WW2 and served in Nazi frontline units. Individual Chechens are among the most ardent members of AlQaeda, which has considered them for use as airline hijackers because of their more European appearance but ardent Islamist beliefs. The concern here is not with denying Chechnya independence, since most Russians would love to see them have their own nationstate on Mars. As with the PLO, its that once they are independent, they will prove to be a constant source of terror, instability and criminal acts to their neighbors. It is also likely they would prove a hotbed of AlQaeda support, a new base for them even more dangerous than Taliban Afghanistan. They've had their chance and that's exactly what they did; they'll never get it now if they blow up that theater and the hundreds of teenagers and young women who are the staple audience of Russian theater prouductions.
19 posted on 10/25/2002, 5:24:12 PM by laconic
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To: dead
The Russians declared "war" on the Muslims a few decades ago. They were concerned about radical Islam infesting the Soviet Union.

Oddly, the Red Chinese are doing the same thing.

20 posted on 10/25/2002, 5:28:15 PM by AppyPappy
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