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The Catholic Vote
EWTN ^ | Various dates, Election 2002 | EWTN, various

Posted on 10/31/2002 10:50:00 AM PST by patent

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To: frogandtoad; Trebics; victim soul; fatima; ltlflwr; Lady In Blue; Notwithstanding
Election prayer BUMP!
21 posted on 10/31/2002 11:45:44 AM PST by Siobhan
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To: sinkspur
It might even be a mortal sin if one's refusal to vote would result in the election of an unworthy candidate.
A mortal sin not to vote? An eternity in hell because one didn't go to the polls?

I'm not in favor of encouraging people to vote who don't have a great desire to, as they usually vote on emotion.

But, threatening with eternal damnation those dummies who don't care about voting is odd.
You get awfully excited about these things.

The only people who will be swayed into voting by the fear of eternal damnation are the same people who will be swayed against voting for pro-aborts by the same article and by the same fear. This statement is not going to drive lots of emotional pro-abort democrats to the polls, as those people care very little about the moral principles (at least the Catholic moral principles) of their vote to begin with. If they don’t care that they cooperate with abortion by voting for aborts, they won’t care about skipping the voting booth either.

As to whether its a mortal sin or not, I don't see any reason why it couldn't be. There are sins of commission, and sins of omission. FAiling to act to prevent a rape, for example just sitting by and watching, is clearly a rather serious sin. Sitting by and watching murder when you can do something to prevent it is similarly a rather serious omission.

If you have the chance to do something about abortion, know that you have the chance, and still fail to act, you clearly sin. Whether it is mortal or not depends on the specifics, as I think this article leaves clear.

patent  +AMDG

22 posted on 10/31/2002 11:48:39 AM PST by patent
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To: patent
Excellent Post! BUMP!

Thanks patent!
23 posted on 10/31/2002 11:52:04 AM PST by ThomasMore
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: TxBec
Bless you for the ping to this thread!
25 posted on 10/31/2002 11:58:37 AM PST by Siobhan
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To: All
Tom Davis (R-VA-11):
To view more of Davis' shameful record, go here.

Vote for Frank Creel who has been endorsed by WeVoteProLife.com!

26 posted on 10/31/2002 11:59:45 AM PST by ltlflwr
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To: patent
You get awfully excited about these things.

I get awfully excited about the casuastic and almost casual way the Church decreed what was mortally sinful, which, thankfully it is no longer doing. You know well the joke about those doing time in hell because they ate a hot dog on Friday prior to Vatican II.

Mortal sin separates one from God, for eternity. There just aren't many things one can do or not do which would result in such finality.

Somehow not voting (no matter what is at stake), or voting for the "wrong" person, just doesn't rise to the same level as murder, or cheating on one's wife, or the abuse of a child.

Nor does eating meat on a particular day.

People who don't vote are lousy citizens, but I don't want someone of that mindset deciding important issues anyway. So, I'd rather they stay away.

27 posted on 10/31/2002 12:00:03 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: Alberta's Child; sinkspur
I would not want to be the [CATHOLIC] person who lived in America post-Roe v. Wade and has to explain why getting a haircut on the first Tuesday in November was so important in light of the 40+ million human beings who were being killed with the full approval of my democratically-elected government.

Sounds like cause for mortal sin to me, when one looks at the grim reality of a legalized halocaust of the innocent. Great point...Mortal indeed.

28 posted on 10/31/2002 12:01:16 PM PST by Polycarp
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To: Bud McDuell
The Republicans in power will only do enough to keep people like you voting for them - they don't care about unborn babies.

I'm not going to argue with you about this, but the people you vote for have no chance of being elected, so they're not going to do anything about abortion, for sure.

A Republican Senate stands a good chance of bringing a ban on PBA to the floor, where it would pass, and Bush would sign it.

29 posted on 10/31/2002 12:05:39 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: Alberta's Child
. . . . or that Pilate was a non-entity to Him, since He maintained that His kingdom was "not of this world." In contrast, the Pharisees directly attacked His vision of the Kingdom of God, and hence were worthy of his attention.
30 posted on 10/31/2002 12:14:25 PM PST by rogerthedodger
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To: patent
Don't forget to ping the Orthodox. We might like harrassing you, but we do agree on most moral items.
31 posted on 10/31/2002 12:26:15 PM PST by JosephW
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To: rogerthedodger
I think you are wrong about this. Christ's kingdom was certainly not "of this world," but He also made it very clear that we are to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." I have another interesting take on that story, but I'll hold off on it for now . . .

The Catholic Church has always taught that civil governments are a legitimate form of authority over Christians and are to be obeyed in all ways except those that are morally wrong.

32 posted on 10/31/2002 12:39:02 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: Alberta's Child
I think He made it clear that there were two 'kingdoms' one earthly, and one heavenly. I agree that He also admonished us to abide by the mandates of legitimate civil authority. However, in the case of his questioning before Pilate, I don't think His nonchalance should be interpreted to be a sanction of Pilate's authority over Him, or that Pilate was right in the situation. I interpret the whole exchange, and Jesus' apparent unwillingness to become confrontational, to reflect Jesus' utter disregard for Pilate's authority over Him. I guess it would be like you or I being brought into a Cub Scout Pack Board of Inquiry (I'm making such a body up). You tell your Cub Scouts to obey the law of the Pack and submit to the board, but if you yourself were hauled in before it, you would probably treat it with similar nonchalance, or even disdain.

I believe almost all Christian churches teach obedience to legitimate authority.
33 posted on 10/31/2002 12:54:46 PM PST by rogerthedodger
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IN 5 DAYS, THEY'LL BE VOTING DEMOCRAT

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TODAY TO HELP TAKE BACK THE SENATE?

TakeBackCongress.org

A resource for conservatives who want a Republican majority in the Senate

34 posted on 10/31/2002 12:59:53 PM PST by ffrancone
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To: JosephW; FormerLib
Don't forget to ping the Orthodox. We might like harrassing you, but we do agree on most moral items.
Would one of you have an orthodox ping list? I’m a little short on time as I’m headed on the road again. Otherwise I would try to generate one again.

patent  +AMDG

35 posted on 10/31/2002 1:08:02 PM PST by patent
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To: ffrancone
Hello ffrancone,

In 5 days, if voters in Virginia's 11th Congressional District want a real conservative, they should vote for Frank Creel for Congress.

Democrats have not fielded a candidate for this race -- and why should they? Tom Davis is close enough to perfect for them. See my post (#26) above.


This is America. In America, we hold elections, not coronations. - Frank Creel
36 posted on 10/31/2002 1:13:33 PM PST by ltlflwr
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To: patent
Ping! until I can figure out how to bookmark. There used to be a command to click. Am I overlooking something?
37 posted on 10/31/2002 1:14:10 PM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: TxBec; hobbes1; dubyaismypresident
thanks for the ping, tx. pinging hobbes and dubs.
38 posted on 10/31/2002 1:19:02 PM PST by xsmommy
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To: rogerthedodger
I interpret the whole exchange, and Jesus' apparent unwillingness to become confrontational, to reflect Jesus' utter disregard for Pilate's authority over Him. I guess it would be like you or I being brought into a Cub Scout Pack Board of Inquiry (I'm making such a body up). You tell your Cub Scouts to obey the law of the Pack and submit to the board, but if you yourself were hauled in before it, you would probably treat it with similar nonchalance, or even disdain.

The problem with your example is that I am not a Cub Scout, but Jesus was a man. There was no "utter disregard" for Pilate's authority because his authority to carry out his duties as Caesar's representative was real. If Christ had intended to illustrate an utter disregard for the authority of the Roman government, He would have been executed by the Pharisees instead.

I think these events reveal quite a bit about Christ and His mission that isn't obvious at first glance. I believe that the "render unto Caesar" discourse was not just intended to serve as a point of instruction for Christians, but foretold the events that would unfold later on. Christ specifically told the Pharisees to "give Caesar what is his and give God what is His," but in the end the Pharisees would do neither. In their vain attempt to adhere to the Law of Moses, they refused to kill Christ themselves during Passover but instead handed Him over to Caesar to have it done. In "rendering unto Caesar" something that was not Caesar's, they took something away from God (His Chosen People) something that was God's.

It is worth noting, then, that the very first conversion after Christ's death involved not a Jewish citizen of Israel but a pagan citizen of Rome -- the centurion who stood at the foot of the cross. This was not an accident of history -- it was a clear indication that the future of Christ's Church would lie not with the Chosen People, but with the Gentiles.

39 posted on 10/31/2002 1:21:25 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: Alberta's Child
Obviously, I couldn't agree more. Popular government has been, is, and always will be a disaster. The idea that vox populi, vox dei is blasphemous and contrary to the First Commandment.

Like the worshippers of Moloch in ancient Canaan, the citizens of the most democratic nation in the world today are characterized by their hedonism, their lust for gold, and their enthusiasm for child sacrifice. If this were a truly Christian culture, there wouldn't be an abortion clinic in the country left standing. Oh, sure, we vote pro-life, but voting won't get rid of abortion: most people want legal abortion. A constitutional amendment won't fly for the same reason: not enough states would support it. (And, as we've seen, the effort to put pro-lifers on the Supreme Court simply results in the nominee getting Borked on nationwide TV.)

The obvious solution would be simply to bulldoze the clinics and keep bulldozing them until the abortion industry gives up -- but we can't do that, for obvious reasons. Therefore, since the majority rules, we just have to go along with it and allow the daily murder of innocent human beings. After all, the People have spoken.

And when the majority decides that some other class of human being is "life unworthy of life"? I guess we'll just go along with that, too. All hail King Mob, and the media handlers who inspire them.

40 posted on 10/31/2002 1:31:41 PM PST by B-Chan
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