IS THERE A GOD GENE? (VANITY)

Me | 11/02/02 | Van E. T. Fair

[txhurl]

There was a marquee somewhere that said

What if God is waiting for a sign from US?

[Consort]

Is ther a God, Gene?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Perhaps I should have asked if God is within us or without us. 38 posted on 11/03/2002 1:01 PM PST by Old Professer

There's two ways to examine your question.

• If you are saying, "It is a Fact that God exists; is God within us or without us?" -- then the Fact of God's OmniPresence renders the question moot. You may proceed directly to the next question: "What is my relationship to God"?

• On The Other Hand, if you are saying "Is God without us (i.e., He factually exists, independent of our imagination), or is He within us (i.e., He is a figment of our imagination)?" -- then I would refer you back to my #36... there are those of us who simply believe the evidentiary Facts of History on the matter, are true.

I have a very simple criterion for God-hood: The guy who gets nailed to a plank of wood, gets a stake shoved through his heart, is dead and buried... and then gets up and walks out of the grave... well, He gets to be the One True God.

I have yet to find a better determinating criterion.

[lsee]

LOL!!!

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

And you really think the evidence is an old tomb instead of the marvel of human life with none other in sight for millions of light years? ~~ 43 posted on 11/03/2002 1:18 PM PST by Dutch-Comfort

Of course.

Christianity stands or falls on the Documented, Historical Fact of the Bodily Physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Everything else is a side-issue -- a virtual triviality.

[agrandis]

I like your post #40... There is no denying the existence of perfect Righteousness, and our imperfection.

[agrandis]

LOL!

[MHGinTN]

It always amazes me that some accept the testimony of witnesses when trying a capital case but refuse to accept the witness of hundreds (perhaps thousands) who claim to have seen the risen Christ only days after he was nailed to a cross and his death verified by a Roman lance!

Here's a thought/question: could it be that the spirit is connected to the soul and the soul to the body of atoms/molecules via the complexity we call DNA; could it be that there is a dimensional reality (as real as dimension time or dimension space) which one might call the life force, which is connected to the physical universe of atoms and molecules via a complexity known as the double helix? I think there is, but as yet the scientific evidence as been weighted to merely identifying the molecules, without seeking a connection to another dimensional reality. Therein is found faith and according toone claiming to be God on Earth, that force, faith, is greater than all the known scientific forces. Oddly, the evidence so far adds up to testing only the known forces of the physical spacetime playground. Perhaps we need a new paradigm that incorporates a different perspective on space, time, and life force.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

It always amazes me that some accept the testimony of witnesses when trying a capital case but refuse to accept the witness of hundreds (perhaps thousands) who claim to have seen the risen Christ only days after he was nailed to a cross and his death verified by a Roman lance!

Per'zackly.

Here's a thought/question: could it be that the spirit is connected to the soul and the soul to the body of atoms/molecules via the complexity we call DNA; could it be that there is a dimensional reality (as real as dimension time or dimension space) which one might call the life force, which is connected to the physical universe of atoms and molecules via a complexity known as the double helix? I think there is, but as yet the scientific evidence as been weighted to merely identifying the molecules, without seeking a connection to another dimensional reality. Therein is found faith and according toone claiming to be God on Earth, that force, faith, is greater than all the known scientific forces. Oddly, the evidence so far adds up to testing only the known forces of the physical spacetime playground. Perhaps we need a new paradigm that incorporates a different perspective on space, time, and life force.

Actually, the first question you need to ask is whether or not the Human Person is a tripartite Being at all (Body, Soul, and Spirit) or rather a bipartite Being (Body and Spirit, together comprising the holistic flesh/spirit Constitution which is the Whole Person or "Living Soul").

"Tripartite" advocates will typically cite 1 Thessalonians 5:23:

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Arguing for the Tripartite view of Man.

However, "Bipartite" advocates would argue that this should be interpreted in the light of Hebrews 4:12:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Arguing that, just as the joints of the Body are a holistic constitution of two parts (Bone and Marrow), so also the Soul is a holistic constitution of Flesh and Spirit. I.E., the "Soul" is the Whole Person, constituted of Flesh and Spirit.

I would argue that this view is reinforced by the fact that Scripture generally treats the Functions of Man as being either functions of Flesh, or functions of Spirit, generally treating the Soul as the Whole Person.

As a thought exercise, consider that both Flesh and Spirit are present at Conception. Is the "Soul" also present (as a separate constituent entity) at Conception? If so, define even one attribute of the Soul which is not a function of either the flesh, or the spirit.

Thoughts?

[MHGinTN]

Wouldn't therefore every living thing have a soul of life connecting to the universe of atoms and molecules, and the human animal would have another aspect, the spirit, connected to the soul of life?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Wouldn't therefore every living thing have a soul of life connecting to the universe of atoms and molecules, and the human animal would have another aspect, the spirit, connected to the soul of life?

Surely. But IMHO there's nothing about the animals which is in any way distinct from the basic material elements of the universe -- i.e., they are "fleshly Souls", electro-chemical Constructs -- and nothing more.

Not that I don't think that animals are incredible Constructions of mass/energy; they certainly are. Animals possess (simple) Minds, (instinctual) Emotions, even a purely-material (and rudinetary) form of Free Will (at least, I know that my Cat does... I'm not so sure about Dogs, for example).

But, when all is said and done, they are "fleshly Souls", electro-chemical Constructs -- and nothing more. Animals don't possess a spiritual constitution, a Spirit... "the Breath of God". Their Minds, Emotions, and Wills are not divinely-inspirated to be able to interact with the Godhead.

Humans, are. We are the Imago Dei, we possess a Spiritual Constitution, and we ARE divinely-inspirated to be able to interact with the Godhead.

What a piece of work is man,
How noble in reason, How infinite in faculties,
In form and moving, How express and admirable,
In action, How like an angel,
In apprehension, How like a god.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

rudinetary rudimentary

Mea Culpa

[CyberAnt]

Hmmm? "do we have true will"

Well ... if we don't, then we would still be in the garden God created for us.

But ... because of man's free will (giving man [generic for human] the ability to choose), Adam and Eve made a terrible choice - to disobey God.

God did not create us to be robots - In Deut. 28-29, God set forth "blessing or cursing" - and then God gave us a choice - He could not do that if we were not already gifted with the ability to choose. God said, "I've set before you blessing and cursing - now you choose; but choose life.

Even after God gave us a choice, he gave us a hint which one to choose - He said, "but choose life". The choice is still ours today.

[MHGinTN]

Surely. But IMHO there's nothing about the animals which is in any way distinct from the basic material elements of the universe -- i.e., they are "fleshly Souls", electro-chemical Constructs -- and nothing more. Sorry, I believe the electro-chemical is not alive. I believe life is a continuum leap above the electro-chemical. Yes, I woul categorize the soul as a dimension level above the electro-chemical, and likewise, I would categorize the spirit as a dimensional level above the soul. I do believe all living things have a soul of life, but the human being is yet another level above the soulish. I suppose I would use the term 'evolved' to express the leaps from mere electro-chemical to life to spirit. As such, we might extrapolate that God the Creator is still 'doing' the development of the universe He has in the Mind of God. Oh, and I would not delimit the process to something temporal in limitations.

[MHGinTN]

Even after God gave us a choice, he gave us a hint which one to choose - He said, "but choose life". The choice is still ours today. When Jesus spoke of the dead burying the dead, I believe He was referrin to the level of life so much greater than the solish life, the spiritual level. The living soul is an animal lifted to yet another level, with a spirit active and functioning in the direction Go deires for each human but will not force upon each, leaving the choice to choose life or 'be' dead in trespasses and sin ... the next stage in the evolutionary process is one defined along choice not chance.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Sorry, I believe the electro-chemical is not alive. I believe life is a continuum leap above the electro-chemical. Yes, I woul categorize the soul as a dimension level above the electro-chemical, and likewise, I would categorize the spirit as a dimensional level above the soul.

I'm open to the possibility. Out of curiosity, would you suggest any Bible verses which would tend to evidence such a view? Thanks.

best, op

[txhurl]

The death experience has been examined physically as well. Over the years, various researchers have attempted to show a loss of weight of the human body upon death. The most explicit research of this phenomena occurred at the Technical University of Berlin which reported that after weighing over 200 terminally ill patients just before and immediately after death, there was a weight loss of 1/3,000th of an ounce.

I'd read years ago that the weight was much larger, but that was pre-internet. From this link, the first I could find.

[MHGinTN]

Look first to Genesis ... 'breathed into him and he became a living soul'. The life was aready on the Earth when God created the next level of His ongoing creation.

[txhurl]

Are you still following your thread here? How are we doing?