CAVUTO REPORTS THAT BUSH CONSIDERING SCRAPPING THE IRS CODE!!!

Fox News Channel | November 6, 2002 | n/a

[Tree of Liberty]

Neil Cavuto just interviewed Mitchell E. Daniels, Jr., the director of the OMB, and Neil let it be known that he's hearing rumblings that Pres. Bush is considering a total re-write of the tax code and that SecTreas O'Neill is strongly pushing a national retail sales tax!

[ThinkDifferent]

sales taxes are actually harder on the poor as they have to spend a much hirer percent of their income than a richer person does

With universal rebates, the poor will effectively pay zero or negative taxes.

[palmer]

It doesn't eliminate tax audits, but it sure makes them a lot less painful

I'd like to know how that works. At the flea market near me there are people selling new merchandise without collecting sales taxes. Presumably that's illegal now but not enforced. Under the NRST, I presume there would have to be on-site enforcement?

[Nephi]

You're the first one who's made any sense on this thread!! How right you are.

[aristeides]

That discrimination against the poor can be eliminated by exempting necessities.

[Route66]

I really do want the income tax to go in the worst way.
However, I am unsure about the national sales tax, too.

It will create an unbelievable bureaucracy that will have to support the management of this tax. Every business owner would still be the tax collector for the federal government and will at any time be at risk of having to deal with the extra scrutiny of a new version of the IRS.

If we are still going to go the way of a citizen's tax, I would much prefer a tax where every citizen is responsible for paying their share directly. It keeps the people connected to the real amount they are paying when they see it go directly from their pocket to the government instead of through a middle man.

I know it would never happen, but I think the perfect tax would be to tax imports. Tariffs were the means of federal government support once apon a time and with most of the hard goods sold in this country now being imported, maybe it could work again.

It would greatly increase the cost of these goods to the consumer, but it would be simple for the vast majority of the country and save a fortune in administration. The federal government would only have to deal with those who are bringing goods into the country - not every point of sale from sea to shining sea.

Another thing that worries me is that even if the income tax is not being withheld from checks anymore, SS and Medicare still will be, so we keep that whole system with its costs in place and we add a new avenue of taxation to it.

After people see an initial lowering of the amount taken from their check when the income tax is converted to a sales tax, I would assume we can expect them start slowly raising the amount withheld again for SS and medicare thereby getting away with more of our money without it being as noticable.

I'm open here, but we would have a lot to consider.

[Pern]

A better way to turn the tide on taxation would be to make EVERYONE pay estimated taxes.

I hear you. I'm self-employed and I have to pay estimated taxes, and boy does it pi$$ me off!

[AdamSelene235]

If this happens, I'd be a Republican for life. I'd join the friggin John Birch society.

[calenel]

A NRST is, in fact, constitutional, and could be implemented without more than a majority vote in congress.

The 16th Amendment states:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on income, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

An NRST is an INCOME TAX on the RETAILER as opposed to the employees.

The added benefit of the NRST is that, at least to some degree, it is tied more closely to the performance of the economy.

[palmer]

exempting necessities.

like ammunition?

[Phantom Lord]

What is unconstitutional about a flat tax? And why would a national sales tax be unconstitutional? We already have federal sales taxes. Are they unconstitutional? And if so, why haven't they been ruled as such?

And don't forget, the Supreme Court ruled an Income Tax UNCONSTUTIONAL 5 times! That is why they had to amend the constitution to get one.

[Samizdat]

The IRS is a state sponsored terrorist organization. Let it be die a swift death.

[coloradan]

For those who must insist on progressive taxation, there is an answer: sales tax rebates that go to everyone, equal to the level of taxation paid by someone at the poverty line. Those people break even (tax paid = refund), while the poorer actually get money and the rich get less. It is one of the seriously-being-considered plans. It even has the bonus of allowing people who wish to not be tracked by the government, for privacy reasons, who don't want to be in "the system," they can just not give their SSN and not get a check. The price for this anonymity is only the cost of sales tax at the poverty level.

[ThinkDifferent]

From the FAQ at fairtax.org:

Under the FairTax, Social Security will operate exactly as it does today, except that its funds will come from the FairTax.

[Phantom Lord]

I would not support a NRST without the repeal of the 16th amendment.

[aristeides]

Before there was an income tax, there were excise taxes. Excise taxes were enforced by excisemen. Thomas Paine was an exciseman. They performed the equivalent of audits on businesses. But private individuals escaped such scrutiny.

Under a sales tax, the situation would be the same. A bureaucracy would be required, but it would be a considerably smaller bureaucracy. Audits would be required, but on a considerably smaller scale not involving private individuals.

[Samizdat]

Bump for freedom! If Bush can finesse it, we may see a completely different, more free and prosperous America in the coming months.

[the bottle let me down]

Bingo!

The balck market problem is why the pressure will be on from teh outset to trtansform teh sales tax into a VAT. A VAT minimizes lost revenue to the government.

A prediction: Within a twenty years of its adoption, the NRST will become a VAT. (Issues of VAT transparency may be addressed by requiring the accumulated VAT to be listed rather than built into the price.)

[Stallone]

Sales tax AND income tax? Can you say 'Canada'?

[PhilipFreneau]

I have been advocating a national sales tax since 1978. I may be the person who gave the idea to Congressman Bill Archer. To make it pallatable to all, I think there should be a rebate for every man woman and child which people have to apply for to get. This would cover the tax paid for the necessities of life, such as a basic level of clothing, housing, transportation to work or school, etc. (Medical expenses and food should be exempt as they are in Texas.) So that charities don't miss out, a person should be able to assign his rebate to an approved charity, if he does not want to go to the trouble of filing for it. The rebate idea would keep people from saying that the tax is too regressive and taxes the poor an inordinate amount. This would work.

I disagree completely. Any provision for exemptions will eventually lead to the same mess we have now, whereby politicians provide exemptions for votes.

[ThinkDifferent]

Every business owner would still be the tax collector for the federal government and will at any time be at risk of having to deal with the extra scrutiny of a new version of the IRS.

This is still an improvement over today, where *everyone* lives in fear of the IRS.

ven if the income tax is not being withheld from checks anymore, SS and Medicare still will be

No, see the link in post 213.