Posted on 11/08/2002 1:09:07 PM PST by Tomalak
For liberals, it is up to the time in which the baby's head makes it past a pair of scissors and out of the woman.
Since our Heavenly Father is eternal and time is an invention of man this argument is irrelevent. Abortion is murder in the eyes of our Father in Heaven. Isn't it His judgement that counts?
And your problem with that is....?
Actually, 'pro-choice' is a damned lie. The baby has no say and no 'choice.'
"Abortion is the greatest deception that has plagued the black church since Lucifer himself."
Pastor Clenard H. Childress, Jr.
Black GENOCIDE.org
No mercy.
Coming soon: Tha SYNDICATE.
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I cannot imagine how horrifying it must be for a man to watch his woman, against his wishes, head to the abortion clinic to kill their baby and he can't do anything to stop her.
Or how bizarre it must be for a couple who, after aborting, to look at each other, knowing they were complicit in killing their child. I suspect those relationships don't last long.
By any scientific criteria you can name, a complete human life is formed at the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg. The creature formed is alive - growing, maturing and replacing its own dying cells. It is human - already unique from any other human who has ever existed, of the species homo sapiens sapiens, with 46 human chromosomes, and can only develop into an adult human as opposed to any other creature.Of course, this can also be said of a comatose patient on a respirator, with only brain-stem activity. Most find it reasonable at some point for physicians to cease the use of extraordinary levels of life-support.
I realize that it will be pointed out that the child in the womb has the opportunity to develop into a fully functioning individual, but such an argument depends upon the individuality of the child to begin with. Of course the new child in the womb is biologically distinct from any other animal or human for that matter, but can it really be said to have acquired true “individuality” moments after conception. Consider the phenomena of twinning. This implies that individuality on the level that most people understand it has not yet occurred.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that individuality has been seated in the child. The author places the right of the child to live among rights such as liberty and property. Those last two rights are those that the child wouldn’t really be able to enjoy anyway. No child can legally own property, and with curfews and other restrictions unique to children they can’t really be said to enjoy liberty in the same way that an adult does. Why shouldn’t life, like these other two rights, be a privilege based upon the child’s development?
This is not to give a free pass to all who desire an abortion up until the moment of birth. Rather, reasonable yet clear lines can be drawn. Perhaps the moment at which the child is capable of viability outside the womb would be an appropriate time to bestow upon him or her the privileges associated with the right to life.
Abortion is to help women plan their families when they are ready.
The truth is that abortion is so that women can have sex without natural consquences.
Why don't the feminists tell the truth? "We don't want anything to stop us from freewheeling sex at all times. We don't want to be bothered by any conditions on our sex life at all, even the ones G-d gave us! Sometimes birth control doesn't work, and sometimes we just don't feel like going to get some! We want our sex VERY CONVENIENT!"
The real choice is before you commit the act of intercourse. Unless raped, women already HAVE "choice." Don't even have sex unless you are aware that possibly, even with birth control, you might be helping to create life. There is a reason we were so made.
"Those last two rights are those that the child wouldn’t really be able to enjoy anyway. No child can legally own property, and with curfews and other restrictions unique to children they can’t really be said to enjoy liberty in the same way that an adult does. Why shouldn’t life, like these other two rights, be a privilege based upon the child’s development?"
Of course the unborn child won't be enjoy them, if you abort him/her. Your concept of life as a "privilege" to be earned implies that someone else - the expectant mother, the courts, some federal agency, etc. - gets to grant or withhold the "priviledge" of life that priviledge based upon some arbitrary decision that "he/she wouldn't have enjoyed life anyway."
Abortion isn't about where you draw the line or murder - at conception, implantation, first second or third trimester, or beyond - it's about granting some members of the human race the ability to fatally decide whether other's lives are worth living at all. How is that different from murder?
There already exist circumstances under which some members of the human race (government, the court) get to decide whether other's lives are worth living. This is just adding another.
This isn't exactly a new concept either. Death has traditionaly been imposed upon persons for relatively benign offenses and even deformity.
I would hasten to add that in this case, the child's mother is the one who gets to make the decision, which is hardly a impersonal committee. I also grant it is not a decision to be made rashly, and every opportunity to persuade the mother to keep the child should be used, including providing sonograms and other educational materials.
That is correct, and I'll take that thought one step further; the father has no say over the matter, either.
Feminists want abortion "rights" because they see it as a slap in the face of their hated, patriarchal society.
Communists want abortion rights because it breaks up families, weakens our society, and fosters divisiveness and dissent.
The immoral, the truly, unrepentent immoral, want abortion "rights" because that opens a way to avoid the responsibility of one's actions.
Those forces have taken something that should have been used only to save the lives of mothers in bad births, or to destroy the crime of a rapist, and turned it into something much more horrible.
Nonetheless, they will fail. In the near future, partial birth abortions will be outlawed.
It always helps to know who your enemies are. And no amount of rationalizing or "reason" changes this fact.
Ain't no sunshine when it's on...
No mercy.
Coming soon: Tha SYNDICATE.
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If abortion is supposedly a private/personal decision according to Roe v. Wade, public funding of abortion is illegal and violates Roe v. Wade.
THINK...
Also, why is polygamy such a huge deal for the pro-abortion Left? BECAUSE, if JUST ONE person in a polygamous marriage claims their so-called "reproductive rights," we have a first class ticket into the Supreme Court on the issue of Roe v. Wade.
I personally view abortion as a ritualized mass murder cult, a mass human sacrifice to the idolatrous false gods of the Left...
Ever consider that despite their generally being maligned, the polygamists are Pro-Life?
Gay advocates of "domestic partnerships" are in effect saying to other homosexuals, that it is only acceptable to be "gay" as long as other homosexuals conform to their hypocritical standard of monogamy. The general public discussion about marriage, homosexuality and "domestic partners," does not address the central issue - - monogamy is a sectarian establishment of religion in the law and violates the First Amendment’s prohibition "regarding an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Various homosexual pressure groups that claim to support "equality" never address bisexuality and the idea that a bisexual is not allowed to benefit from relationships with persons of both sexes. Nor are they, the Left Wing Media, and Left Wing Educational Establishment willing to discuss polygyny or polyandry, which are, or have been traditions for Muslims, Mormons, Hebrews, Hindus, Buddhists and Africans, as well as other Pagan cultures. The two sides currently represented in the same-sex marriage debate both want special rights for monogamists. However, the proponents of heterosexual only marriages are willing to concede that a homosexual has just as much a right to marry a person of the opposite sex as any heterosexual does. [Incidentally, the desire to have children is a heterosexual desire.]
Nowhere in the religious texts of the above mentioned cultures is there a prohibition of polygamy and I challenge any scholar of theology, literature or history to refute it with proof from the Judeo-Christian Bible, Holy Qur’an, Mahabharata, Rig Veda, or Dhammapada. The ignorance of these historical and cultural facts is evidence of the failed public education system and the fig leaf covering the personal bias of certain staff members in the Left Wing Press and Left Wing Educational Establishment concerning facts, reporting them and/or teaching them.
To allow an institution of homosexual marriage in a monogamous form requires some sort of moralistic meandering to justify it and prohibit any form of polygamy. Upon what basis, if we are to assume it is discrimminatory to not allow homosexuals to "marry," can there be a prohibition of the varying forms of polygamy? Especially, since the First Amendment is specific in forbidding an establishment of religion in the law and is supposed to protect the people's right to assemble peaceably? The entire issue of "same-sex" marriage hinges upon the assumption that monogamy is the only form of marriage. I contend that it is based upon human biological reproduction and is outside of the government's authority to regulate in regard to the First Amendment...
To bolster some of my assertions:
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"What gay ideologues, inflated like pink balloons with poststructuralist hot air, can't admit, of course, is that heterosexuality is nature's norm, enforced by powerful hormonal cues at puberty. In the past decade, one shoddy book after another, rapturously applauded by p.c. reviewers, has exaggerated the incidence of homosexuality in the animal world and, without due regard for reproductive adaptations caused by environmental changes, toxins or population pressure, reductively interpreted bonding or hierarchical behavior as gay in the human sense."
About the writer: Camille Paglia is professor of humanities and media studies at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia.
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The issue: Polyandry, polygyny, open societal promiscuity versus societal sanctioning of monogamy for heterosexuals and homosexuals by establishing religion in the law with a creationist/moralist patent.
The issue of polygamy is an Achille's heel for both popular sides of the same-sex marriage issue. The religious cannot find a prohibition of it in their sacred texts. The advocates have to resort to a litany of moralistic meandering based upon the creationist philosophy they claim to oppose to justify it. Both want special rights for preferred groups and are not interested in the individual freedoms of free association. They both want an establishment of religion in the law no matter how much they will deny that.
Unless you like conforming to the religionist dictates, I suggest you and others re-examine the B.S. the guardians of political correctness on the Religious Left have been feeding you.
The First Amendment is very unambiguous. The creationist cultural patent of monogamy is an establishment of religion in the law. The idea that some people get a preferred status based upon their personal relationships goes against the idea of individual rights and the idea of equal protection before the law. What of the people's right peaceably to assemble? It does not take an advanced legal education to comprehend the very clear language of the First Amendment. I say the federal and state governments have no Constitutional authority to be in the marriage business at all, except where each individual has a biological responsibility for any offspring they produce. With "reproductive rights," there must be reproductive responsibilities.
In addition, prohibition of polygyny, polyandry and various forms of polygamy (which includes bisexuals) is not consistent with Roe v. Wade - - society has no right to intervene in private reproductive choices. The recent case of a polygynist being prosecuted in Utah is a great example. Do the women associated with the man who fathered those children have a "right to choose" who they want to mate and produce offspring with? Does the man have a right to choose concerning the production of his progeny? Roe v. Wade says societal intervention in private reproductive choices is a violation of individual liberties. What implication does this also have concerning welfare and public funding of abortions? The issue of polygamy tears down a lot of the sacred cows...
THINK, THINK, THINK,...
The so-called empowerment of women and rights of women have been appropriated by a few to mean rights of the few and no longer means an individual woman’s right to equal treatment. Some would emphasize the "inalienable right" of women to decide whether or not to bear a child. This has the effect of defining women as reproductive units rather than as human beings. Real women’s rights would emphasize greater opportunities for education and employment instead of emphasizing a cult of fertility which leads to economic dependency on men and the rest of society, including homosexual men and women who do not reproduce.
The inaccuracies concerning the political economy of sex as portrayed by pro-"choice" advocates deserve a thorough review: Reproductive "choice" is made when two heterosexual people decide to engage in adult relations, not after the fact. The desire to have children is a heterosexual desire. Provided it is a consenting relationship, no woman is forced to become pregnant. Modern science and capitalism (see: Ayn Rand’s Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal and Camille Paglia’s Sexual Personae) have provided methods to give women pre-emptive power over the forces of nature. No woman has control over her body; only nature does. It is modern Western Civilization that gives women power over nature, not Roe v. Wade. [Incidentally, Roe v. Wade, if strictly interpreted, would prohibit public funding for abortion since public funding for abortion is a form of societal intervention in reproduction - - the very thing prohibited by Roe v. Wade.] One may reply Roe v. Wade is part of a larger good called "women’s rights," but this is really a disguise, consigning other women (those who don’t reproduce or those who oppose abortion) to second class citizenship.
This topic is applicable to homosexuality, both the male and female variety, as well as to sexual crimes. The choice to engage in any type of sexual activity is an individual’s, provided of course, he or she is not victim of a sexual assault. It is absurd to claim the rapist has no control over his actions and it is equally ridiculous to say a homosexual does not have a choice not to involve him or herself with another. The same is true for heterosexual females - - being a woman is not an excuse for making poor choices. The idea that "the choice to have an abortion should be left up to a woman" does not take into account the lack of a choice to pay for such services rendered: The general public is forced to pay massive subsidies for other people sex lives. Emotive claims that the decision to have an abortion is a private one is refuted by the demands of those same people who want public funding for their private choices and/or mistakes.
An adult male or female can be sent to the penitentiary for engaging in carnal pleasures with a minor. One female schoolteacher had become the focus of national attention because she produced a child with her juvenile student. She went to prison while pregnant the second time from the very same child student. Courts allowing a minor female to have an abortion without parental consent or notification can destroy evidence of a felony (such as molestation, rape or incest). Those courts and judges therein have become complicit in the destruction of evidence and are possible accessories in the commission of a felony.
Another source of amazement is the concept of those who hold candlelight vigils for heinous murderers about to be executed, a large number of whom think it is acceptable to murder an unborn child without the benefit of a trial. Is the "right to life" of one responsible for much murder and mayhem more important than that of a truly innocent unborn child? Perhaps we should call capital punishment "post-natal abortion" and identify abortion as a "pre-natal death sentence" or "pre-natal summary execution." Your "reproductive freedom" is my economic and environmental tyranny.
If they aren't pro-life, then they aren't on the Right. Being pro-life IS the litmus test for whether or not you are on the Right, in my opinion. They might claim membership to a Party (e.g. Libertarian, Reform, Constitution, Republican) that trends Right on some items, but if they aren't pro-life, then they aren't on the Right.
And I hope that you don't mean me. You probably don't, but let me be clear; I am pro-life.
Samuel is an American baby and no matter what Samuel looks like, Samuel had the right to life.
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