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1 posted on 11/14/2002 10:08:12 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
Oops.. you mean congressman. :)
2 posted on 11/14/2002 10:12:07 PM PST by lainie
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To: FormerLurker
Would that he were a senator.
3 posted on 11/14/2002 10:13:07 PM PST by Misterioso
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I have but one request. When you people begin criticizing Ron Paul, please quote the passage of the article that you take issue with.
5 posted on 11/14/2002 10:14:18 PM PST by Schmedlap
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To: Admin Moderator
Er, I sort of messed up. Could you edit the title to indicate that Congressman Paul is a Congressman and not a Senator? Thanks...
6 posted on 11/14/2002 10:15:02 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
We need 434 more like him in Congress.

Homeland defense begins at our borders and then rooting out those who are in are country who shouldn't be.  The federal government already has the power for that.

More armed federal agents with expanded powers is about the last thing we need.


9 posted on 11/14/2002 10:19:31 PM PST by WarHawk42
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To: AAABEST; Lion's Cub; spycatcher
Ok, other than the fact I just promoted Congressman Paul to Senator, what are your thoughts?
11 posted on 11/14/2002 10:21:06 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
Have You seen Safire's article on Poindexter & the Office of Information & Awareness? ( or something to that effect.)
I thought I was the only one in Freeperland that was opposed to the Homeland (Fatherland) Security Act, but I see several posts here that echo my concerns.

Hopefully enough americans will wake up to see the folly of this "Security enhancement legislation".

13 posted on 11/14/2002 10:27:26 PM PST by Drammach
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To: FormerLurker
War is the health of the state
14 posted on 11/14/2002 10:27:49 PM PST by The FRugitive
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To: FormerLurker
Anyone begining to feel a little boxed in?
16 posted on 11/14/2002 10:31:19 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: FormerLurker
He also wants to bring home all our soldiers and open the borders. You agree?
17 posted on 11/14/2002 10:31:48 PM PST by Deb
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To: FormerLurker
We have allowed persons from other nations who's citizens have been indoctrined since birth to hate everything US, to enter our nation.  We have allowed them to travel freely.  We have allowed them to associate freely.  We have allowed them to take classes that could instruct them in ways that could be a terrorist threat to our nation.  We continue subsequent to 09/11 allow this practice to continue.

We continue to allow our INS to catch and release illegal aliens that do not belong here.  We continue to allow our borders to be open, upwards of two or three thousand persons entering our nation every day, day after day after day after day.  There is no end in sight.  We have instructed our border control agents to allow illegals to pass freely into our nation, avoiding arresting them.  We have Mexican nationals firing into our nation over our borders.  We have other Mexican nationals making incursions deep into our territory to commit crimes.  We have had at least one park sercice agent killed, when the Mexican government notified his unit that felons were headed in his direction, but neglected to inform his unit that they were heavily armed and had killed four Mexican nationals on their side of the border.  We have had a serial rapist illegal alien.  We have had bank robber illegal aliens.  We have have had serial sniper illegal aliens.  We have rapist illegal aliens.  We have petty theft and burglary illegal aliens.  We have uninsured motorist illegal aliens.

We have millions of illegal aliens inside our borders.  Esitmates range from eight to ten million.  The truth is, we have no idea how many are here.  A problem that once confronted only California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas, now affects nearly all forty-eight mainland states.  Our communities, our schools, our hospitals, our welfare offices, our law enforcement departments and state prisons are all affected adversely.  California's prison population is more than one third illegal aliens, although illegal aliens are supposed to account for less than 10% of the state population.

We have thousands of trucks entering our nation every day.  Around 2% of them are inspected.  We have speed pass that allows certain business trucks to travel right into our nation without much more than a wave through.  We have literally thousands of cargo containers off-loaded at our docks every day.  We have ports on the East Coast, Left Coast, Caribbean Coast and up our major waterways.  Around 2% of these cargo containers are inspected on their way into our nation.

We have exported all manufacturing and business processes that we can.  This has facilitated a massive increase in traffic at our ports and borders.

In short we have managed to create a situation that is out of control.  It is so far out of control that the government makes no pretense of fixing much of any of it.  Instead it proposes to institute a department who's sole duty will be to maintain tabs on every single citizen.  No it doesn't propose to close borders, control borders, end senseless and suicideal immigration policies, or end importation of materials over which we exert no control whatsoever.

The safty net that was supposed to protect this nation is lying in a heap in the corner.  We are wide open to an insurgent attack of the highest order.  Contraband, manpower and the will to utilize them to our worst possible immaginable detriment is here, and continues to come here.

Only in a nation with an out of control government, could watch as this takes place.  Only it could do this yet determine that law abiding long term citizens who were indoctrinated their whole lives to be loyal to this nation are the real threat.  Only it could do this while taking no actions at all against outsiders who have been indoctrinated their whole lives to hate us and our form of government.

The homeland security department that is tasked with watching over ever bowel movement I have in upcoming years, and documenting them, is of great comfort.  It is of great comfort to the folks who wish to end our nation's freedom and take over themselves.  At this time I do not know which terrorists are worse, the ones coming in or the ones tasked to terrorize us from within our own government.  I have my suspicions.

We may not be able to stop all the terrorists.  I suggest we stop the ones we can.  Any government agency that seeks to know everything there is to know about you is a terrorist group that should be stopped in it's tracks.  Every immigrant to this nation must go through a stringent process.  Every tangible product that comes into this nation MUST BE checked.  Slow the imports if need be.

Get your g.d. nose out of my bank account, my credit accounts, my business interests or any other profiling that is taking place.  If you have a warrant, go for it.  Otherwise back the F--K off!

35 posted on 11/14/2002 11:00:14 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: All
So what's everyone think about FORCED vaccinations?
47 posted on 11/14/2002 11:23:13 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
RON PAUL for President in 2004
92 posted on 11/15/2002 2:59:53 AM PST by WhiteGuy
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To: FormerLurker
Adding insult to injury, this bill was put together late last night and introduced only this morning. Worst of all, the text of the bill has not been made readily available to most members, meaning this Congress is prepared to create a massive new federal agency without even knowing the details

Not to worry- lawmakers vote the way they are paid to, be it in cash or favors or backroom deals. It wouldn't even occur to them to read the bills, even if they had an entire year to do so.

93 posted on 11/15/2002 3:16:06 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: All

Homeland Security Bill Moves to Senate

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--Concerns about bill multiplying as details are revealed
--Senators express concern about lack of debate
--“Politics is the mother of bureaucracy” – Sen. Byrd
--Tell Senators to wait for debate and pass the bill in sunshine
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“HR 5710 gives the federal government new powers and increases federal expenditures, completely contradicting what members were told about the bill. Furthermore, these new power grabs are being rushed through Congress without giving members the ability to debate, or even properly study, this proposal. I must oppose this bill and urge my colleagues to do the same.”

---Rep. Ron Paul, M.D. AAPS member on the floor of the House 11/13/02
Read Entire Statement

CONCERNS ABOUT BILL MULTIPLYING

Wednesday night the House passed H.R. 5710, the Homeland Security Bill. The Senate is now debating it, and a vote is expected within days – possibly as early as Friday.

Now that details of the House version are being made public, we’ve heard from a number of individuals and organizations about their concerns about several provisions of this bill in addition to ours about smallpox countermeasures.

Problems with the bill included centralized database provisions, airport security, unchecked power to cabinet officials, extent of the new bureaucracy, concentration of power in the executive branch, suspension of the rule that prohibits secret advisory committee meetings, limited public access to information, and failure to address border security and immigration issues, such as tracking foreign students.

The bottom line is that there are big problems with this bill. But the biggest problem may be that almost no one has read the entire 484-page bill. The brand new legislation was dumped in Congress on Wednesday (with many new provisions) and fast-tracked through the House in less than 24 hours. Rules were used to limit debate and amendments.

SENATORS EXPRESS CONCERN ABOUT LACK OF DEBATE

We’d like to tell you what the Senate bill says about the smallpox countermeasures and the powers to be granted to the HHS Secretary – but there is no copy available to the public. (We finagled the House version on Wednesday from the Rules Committee.) Staff members tell us that it is the same as the House version, but without a document in hand, we can’t comment on the specifics.

At this point we agree with Sen. Byrd who said on Thursday “We’re making a huge mistake passing the bill at this time…there has not been a single hearing.” He expressed his concerns about the way the bill was being pushed through Congress with little debate or discussion, adding, “If necessity is the mother of invention, then politics is the mother of bureaucracy.”

DELAY VOTE FOR HONEST DEBATE

Please tell your Senators to vote NO on the Homeland Security Bill. Instead, let’s wait for a workable bill that also protects our liberties. One that’s debated and passed in the light of sunshine.

Contact your Senator
Contact the White House: president@whitehouse.gov
Read the House Bill

Other Links


97 posted on 11/15/2002 8:09:34 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
bump for later perusal
100 posted on 11/16/2002 7:14:30 PM PST by mamaduck
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