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To: Nogbad
My understanding is that the Koran was written down in Syria, yes, but that does not mean islam originated there. The Koran was only codified during the Omayyad dynasty. The early traditions were largely oral, with scattered texts recording this or that "wisdom literature". The Koran is stapled together piecemeal, and it shows. Muhammad himself was probably not literate.

None of which addresses the religious and political movement involved. Religions are not books, nor are they based on books in their formative periods. Books are means to preserve traditions that already exist, not the origin of new ones. Remember that only a tiny minority of the ancient world was literate in any way, and most writing there was, was restricted to practical matters of rule or commerce. With priestly matters a third, in more civilized areas.

The salient political fact is that both Syria and Egypt were conquered by Arab armies commanded by one caliph Omar, who ruled as successor ("caliph") to an Arabian monotheist prophet named Muhammad, who had already consolidated the support of most of Arabia before Omar took power. This is not any made up tradition, but a massive historical fact clearly seen in the history of the rival empires of the area, Persia and Byzantium.

Omar's political and military system was legitimated by claiming to follow the previous practices of Muhammad, down to the portions of division of spoils, tax laws, who owed military service, and conditions of surrenders. When an area was conquered, those who converted became soldiers in the new regime, those who did not owed tax. "The Muslims" and "the army" were synonomous. They lived seperated in military encampments, under a sort of military-religious discipline.

Some time later, after further military successes, a succession crisis split the force. When the dust cleared, a different family dynasty, headed by the governor of Syria under the previous ruling group, a family that was originally from Mecca but were rivals even there of the previous ruling house, was in charge of the regime. The court moved to Damascus. Seperatist movements remained in existence, though their size and influence is hardly known.

Under the new dynasty, the Omayyads, the whole thing settled down. Soldiers were settled on land in return for owing taxes. A "civil list" supported by taxes grew up. The strict regimentation of the previous period relaxed. And men began writing down - or making up - traditions about the earlier period, and about the actions of Muhammad, to justify whatever they wanted done. With the nearby power of both Bzyantium and Persia already broken, the new regime continued to expand, incorporating all of Persia and most of North Africa, and making inroads into Asia minor. Frontiers and central court were differentiated. Taxes flowing in to the court in Damascus funded construction, art, and literature in a serious way, for the first time in the movement's history.

Less than a century later, the Omayyad dynasty fell apart, in turn. Opposition movements formed around the changes in taxation, resentment of the civil list as producing inequality, disputes over division of spoils, theological controversy as factions fought over their "traditions" and absorbed hellenist, christian, and persian influences. The army shifted from all Arab to mixed Arab and frontier recruits, particularly from Persia. A new dynasty largely backed by the Persian faction of the army overthrew the Omayyads and moved the capital to Baghdad. There it stayed for hundreds of years.

This is the sort of standard history you get from British turn of the century orientalists like Duncan McDonald. There is zero credulity toward Arab legend spinning involved in any of it. Do not confuse Arab legends about the Koran (tremendously falsified for doctrinal reasons) and about Muhammad's particular actions, sayings, and rulings (falsified in detail to support this or that principle or faction), with the basic political history of the movement's formation and political spread. The last is quite well known.

91 posted on 11/16/2002 11:38:02 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC
That was a very good exposition of the formation of the religion of Islam! Thanks, JasonC. You might have pointed out that the successions from Mohammed followed relatives until the Omayyad dynasties and that the main religion Mohammed wanted to destroy in Arabia was Hinduism and that his travels connected him with a Catholic Priest who likely read the Bible to him and one of his young (young teenaged when he was sixty+) wives read to him from the Hebrew scriptures and the Catholic Bible and Apochrypha.
92 posted on 11/16/2002 11:53:07 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: JasonC
I don't see in what way we differ.

I stated earlier that, yes, there probably was a historical Mohammed
who was a king
and who considered himself some kind of prophet.

The point I was making is
that the Mohammed of the Koran and the Hadith is a mythological person
who bears very little resemblance to any historical person.

Further more, the 'theology' of Islam
(such as it is)
probably originated in Syria not in Mecca and Medina.

94 posted on 11/17/2002 12:21:21 AM PST by Nogbad
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