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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Is this statement closer to:
A.) Greek Orthodoxy? or...
B.) Latin Catholicism? or...
C.) Calvinism?

Or D.) Heresy!

Wait, we have a winner!

52 posted on 03/08/2004 2:06:19 PM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: FormerLib

Is this statement closer to: A.) Greek Orthodoxy? or... B.) Latin Catholicism? or... C.) Calvinism? ~~ Or D.) Heresy! Wait, we have a winner!

Well, heresy according to FormerLib's denomination.

But, since that means we have the Celtic Orthodox teaching this "heresy"... AND the Calvinist Presbyterians teaching this same "heresy"...

Just exactly as I have maintained all along.

54 posted on 03/08/2004 2:13:40 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: FormerLib
Holy Communion is the most frequently celebrated sacrament of the Orthodox Church. The Church refers to the sacraments as Mysteries because of the unfathomable nature of the workings of the Holy Spirit. In Holy Communion, the Holy Spirit infuses the bread and wine, changing them mystically into the Body and Blood of Christ.

The Gospels contain just a few direct references to Holy Communion, perhaps because the practice was only established on the night before Christ surrendered himself. However in the Gospel of John, Chapter 6, Christ speaks of spiritual nourishment and says the following:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. (John 6:47-59)

Now one could easily argue that Christ was speaking figuratively about the nourishment a man derives from faith in Him. But the Jews who were listening did not seem to interpret his statements figuratively. They asked, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Further, when these remarks are viewed in light of Christ's words at the Last Supper, we can see he was speaking directly.

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matthew 26:26-29)

Mark's account is almost identical to Matthew's (Mark 14:22-25). In Luke's account, Christ also tells his disciples, "Do this in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19) Many who reject the divine nature of Communion, including Mr De Hann, argue that Christ was speaking figuratively here as well. But this argument has at least two weaknesses. First, Christ uses no words that suggest he was using a metaphor. He says directly, "This is my body," and "This is my blood." The context provides no evidence which shows that Christ really meant "This bread symbolizes my body," and "This wine symbolizes my blood." Those who interpret these phrases as symbolic cannot do so based on this piece of scripture.

Second, and more importantly, we must look at how the disciples who were present interpreted Christ's words. In addition to the continuing witness of the Orthodox Church with regard to this sacrament, the definitive scriptural statement on their interpretation appears in Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians, chapter 10. Here Paul is warning the Corinthians against sinful practices, and against participation in non-Christian sacrifices in particular:

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (I Corinthians 10:16-21)

Mr De Hann, though he quotes from Chapter 11 of I Corinthians, never makes mention of this passage in Chapter 10.

Paul continues speaking of Communion in Chapter 11, explaining that he is passing on the instructions of Christ. When passing on Christ's words to the Corinthians, Paul never explains that they are to be understood symbolically.

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. (I Corinthians 11:23-26)

Mr De Hann quotes verse 26 ("For as often as ye ..."), but skips over Paul's literal rendering of the words of Christ.

After describing the basis for the practice of Communion, Paul explains the reverence with which the sacrament should be approached.

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. (I Corinthians 11:27- 30)

Mr De Hann quotes the last two verses ("For he that eateth ...") and says that celebrating "The Lord's Supper" is a solemn matter, but he fails to address why a symbolic gesture would carry such a heavy penalty (damnation and sickness) when abused.

58 posted on 03/08/2004 3:54:02 PM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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