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To: XJarhead
This particular islamic cleric is advocating the peaceful conversion of Europe. I see nothing immoral or alarming in that.

Don't mistake Mohammadenism for Christianity.

In the article "this particular cleric" states that, "[Christians] will yet pay us the Jiziya [poll tax paid by non-Muslims under Muslim rule], in humiliation, or they will convert to Islam..."

This is straight out of the Koran:

Surah 9:29

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia entry under Mohammed and Mohammedanism:

In matters political Islam is a system of despotism at home and aggression abroad. The Prophet commanded absolute submission to the imâm. In no case was the sword to be raised against him. The rights of non-Moslem subjects are of the vaguest and most limited kind, and a religious war is a sacred duty whenever there is a chance of success against the "Infidel". Medieval and modern Mohammedan, especially Turkish, persecutions of both Jews and Christians are perhaps the best illustration of this fanatical religious and political spirit.

54 posted on 12/06/2002 5:21:05 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
In the article "this particular cleric" states that, "[Christians] will yet pay us the Jiziya [poll tax paid by non-Muslims under Muslim rule], in humiliation, or they will convert to Islam..."

The second Sheik listed in that article said that. The first one did not, and he was the guy who said that the conquest would not be by the sword. I'm defending him, not the others.

65 posted on 12/06/2002 7:02:41 AM PST by XJarhead
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To: Aquinasfan
With all due respect the Pope and the inner circle should read that material from the Catholic Dictionary. And take it to heart. And the Vatican should be supporting those of the Eastern Church when the Islamics war against them
103 posted on 12/06/2002 3:30:17 PM PST by dennisw
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To: All
Medieval and modern Mohammedan, especially Turkish, persecutions of both Jews and Christians are perhaps the best illustration of this fanatical religious and political spirit.

What the Catholic Encylopedia is the greatest load of BS I've read in a while. Catholics have absolutely no right whatsoever to criticize Turkish rule over non-Muslims. If it had been as they said it was there would not have been any Christians left in the land formerly ruled by the Ottomans for 500 years. I could go on for hundreds of pages decribing Turkish rule but I suppose you could find a few real history books and read about it yourself. It was the Ottomans that saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from Catholic slaughter (actually an understatement as they were usually crucified and burned alive) and again the Ottomans that saved millions of Orthodox Christians from Catholic oppression in the Balkans. They had far greater freedoms under Ottoman rule than they had ever had under Catholic rule.

Greeks Under Ottoman Rule:

Non-Moslem Ottomans living under Ottoman rule were given the right to maintain their ethnic and religious identity in peace and order. Adhering basically to Islamic rules, the Ottoman State adopted the "millet system"; and thus facilitated and maintained the functions of the administrative mechanism.

Entering Hagia Sophia upon the conquest of Istanbul, Sultan Mehmet the Conqueror, said, "I am Sultan Mehmet. I tell you, your friends and all the other residents not to be concerned about my rage, as far as your lives and freedoms are concerned, as of today, which reveals the Ottoman tolerance for Greeks. This tolerance shown by the Sultan on the first day after the conquest continued during the following periods. All the rights given to the Orthodox Church during the Byzantine Empire were given again; and it was protected against the influence and sovereignty of the Catholic Western Church. Independence of the churches was guaranteed. Sultan Mehmet, the Conqueror, appointed Gennadios Patriarch; and also issued a firman for the Catholic Genoeses residing in Istanbul and the residents of Galata, stating that their beliefs were under protection. The Ottoman authorities did their best to protect their rights in the following periods.

Taking advantage of the right given to the minorities to have education in their own languages, Ottoman Greeks founded their own churches and also their own education and teaching institutions. These institutions adopted a religiously oriented education system; whech rasulted in those bodies becoming affiliated to the church.

In the schools opened by the Ottoman Greek merchants in Izmir, Bucharest, Chios , Ayvalýk and Istanbul, Greek classics, mathematics and natural sciences rather than religious subjects were taught. The teachers in these schools were educated in modern western universities. Graduates of these schools were sent to western universities through scholarships provided by Ottoman Greek merchants.

Additionally, Greeks and Ottoman Greeks were acting freely in the Trade sector. Within the framework of the military and economic policies, the Ottoman State ended the maritime trade dominated by the Genoese and Venetians in the Eastern Mediterranean; and in order to replace them, it paved the way for Ottoman Greeks who were Ottoman citizens. The Ottoman government directed Ottoman Greeks to the trade sector by exempting them from military service.

In the Aegean islands, tax rates were kept lower than in other regions with a view to encouraging Ottoman Greeks to get in the trade sector. Professor Dakin, an English historian, who is one of the leading pro-Greek writers, says, "The people preferred Turkish rule to Venetian rule; because taxes were lower and the government was more flexible. Moslems were more tolerant than Roman Catholics."

110 posted on 12/06/2002 7:01:46 PM PST by Turk2
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