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To: mgstarr
Thank you for posting this article.

The original 13th Amendment is found in copies of the Constitution published up to 1876. From that point on, the original 13th Amendment no longer appears and is replaced by the 13th Amendment that prohibits slavery. It is still a mystery as to how the slavery amendment, ratified under President Abraham Lincoln in 1865, replaced the title of nobility amendment of 1819 in all copies of the Constitution published since 1876.

I'm interested in seeing evidence that supports or refutes these specific assertions.

3 posted on 12/30/2002 9:34:20 AM PST by Nephi
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To: Nephi
You never will see any such evidence. The Bild-a-Burgers, Trilateral Commission, and the Council on Foreign Relations all collaborated to use their time-traveling flying saucers to conceal all traces of the true 13th Amendment. </sarcasm>
6 posted on 12/30/2002 9:47:57 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Nephi
Since the article claims George Bush has been the "real" president since 1980 not much refutation is needed. How many Americans were given titles of nobility before the 20th century. Now these titles are like honarary doctor's degrees. Certainly there was no need for such an amendment since the United States was not going to grant such titles anyway.
9 posted on 12/30/2002 9:51:04 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit
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To: Nephi
Having done some original research in the State Library of the State of New Hampshire during the 1970's I can definitely state that as of several books published in the 1850's, 1840's and 1830's there were only twelve ammendments listed in those publications. Since the amendment was supposedly ratified in the 1819 prior to the Missouri Comprimise it should be relatively easy based upon the Congressional record and the records of the several state legislatures and what exists in the Library of Congress to prove or disprove this claim.

I await definitive proof.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - yorktown

22 posted on 12/30/2002 10:20:44 AM PST by harpseal
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To: Nephi
The TONA was never adopted into the Constitution. It was proposed in 1810 without any commentary, but it believed to have been directly aimed at Betsy Patterson, a Baltimore socialite who apparently married Jerome Bonaparte, brother of the French emperor; she was called (possibly by herself) "the Duchess of Baltimore", and was decidedly clawing her way to the top of the social ladder. But by 1813 the marriage was dissolved (or denied by Bonaparte, depending on who tells the story), so the motivation for the TONA evaporated.

However, in 1815 Congress arranged for a Philadelphia publisher to churn out what was supposed to be a more-or-less official edition of all the federal laws. The intro of that 1815 edition clearly says that, as the set goes to press, the TONA has not yet been adopted but it is printed in the volume in anticipation of its adoption; it then appears about 70 pages later (labelled "Amendment XIII") without any attached comment on its status. Nobody seems to have notice this at the time. In 1818 the Congress authorized another publisher to print up a lot of pocket editions of the Constitution for distribution, and that publisher must have relied on the 1815 compilation - without noticing the caveat in the intro - because he included the TONA as if it had been adopted. When this was spotted in the House of Representatives, the House immediately adopted a resolution calling on the President to verify the status of the TONA. This led to two reports by Secretary of State John Quincy Adams to the effect that the TONA had NOT yet received enough state ratifications to be adopted. After that, the TONA never again appears in a Congressionally-authorized edition of the Constitution. However a great many other books made the same mistake of relying on the 1815 volumes without noticing the statement in the introduction.

In 1845 Congress authorized a different publisher, in Boston, to work up a whole new compilation of federal laws. This 1845 set, titled Statutes at Large, contained a Constitution that stops at 12 amendments, with TONA among a collection of Congressional resolutions five volumes away. Once this 1845 edition caught on, the occurrence of TONA appearances in printed editions of the Constitution drops off markedly.

I might add that the Supreme Court has Repeatedly made it clear that the TONA was not adopted.

32 posted on 12/30/2002 12:12:47 PM PST by DonQ
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