Knights Templar to use latest imaging in search for Grail

New Zealand Herald ^ | 01/06/03 | The Independent (?)

[mgstarr]

For centuries the intricately carved stones of Rosslyn Chapel near Edinburgh have tantalised historians, archaeologists and devoted Christians.

A labyrinth of vaults beneath the 15th-century home of the Knights Templar is reputed to contain dozens of holy relics, including early gospels, the Ark of the Covenant, the fabled Holy Grail - and even the mummified head of Christ.

More than 550 years after the first foundation stones were laid, modern technology is about to put the legend to the test.

A group of Knights Templar, successors to the warrior monks who sought asylum from the Pope by fleeing to Scotland in the early 14th century and fought for Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn, are to make a "non-invasive" survey of the land around the chapel.

They will use the latest ultrasound and thermal imaging technology in the hope of finding evidence of the existence of the vaults.

"The plan is to investigate the land around the chapel to a depth of at least 20ft," said John Ritchie, Grand Herald and spokesman for the Knights Templar.

"The machine we are using is the most sophisticated anywhere and is capable of taking readings from the ground up to a mile deep without disturbing any of the land.

"We know many of the Knights are buried in the grounds and there are many references to buried vaults, which we hope this project will finally uncover."Rosslyn Chapel, or the Collegiate Chapel of St Matthew as it was to have been, was founded in 1446 by Sir William St Clair, third and last Prince of Orkney.

Built as a celebration of Christ, it is also a monument to craftsmanship.

Bristling with flying buttresses and gargoyles in the highest Gothic style on the outside, the interior is carved with scenes from the Bible, the fall of man, the expulsion from the Garden of Eden, the birth of Christ, the crucifixion and the resurrection.

"Rosslyn is an amazing building.

[My2Cents]

someone stole all their supporting documentation

Kind of falls in the "My-Dog-Ate-My-Homework" category.

[Oberon]

Good they considered Europe a primitive, barbarian, backwater region of earth with no redeemable values, or they probably would have.

Ummm... they tried. In 711 they invaded Spain from North Africa, and held it a good long while. They besieged Vienna in 1529 and 1683. And had they not been stopped at Vienna, all of Europe would have lay before them like meat on a platter.

[RightWhale]

In 711 they invaded Spain from North Africa

That's what I meant. They would have gone on to grab all of Europe right then, except there was nothing there worth the trouble. There was a bit of history in the time between the Saracens and the siege of Vienna. Different game. The next great danger to Europe was the Mongols who sacked Baghdad, almost destroyed Islam altogether, and who were stopped by Turks thereby saving Europe, which nobody cared about anyway.

[Oberon]

...which nobody cared about anyway.

I seem to be missing something here. If nobody cared about Europe, how was Europe saved by the Turks stopping the Mongols? If the Mongols didn't care about Europe they wouldn't have invaded, Turks or no Turks.

However, if you're trying to say that the Ottoman culture was more highly developed and their technology more advanced than anything the west had to offer at that time, I'll substantially agree.

[mgstarr]

The date on your Guardian article was a little spooky.

[RightWhale]

The funny thing is that the Euros, that is, the West, that is, Rome, didn't care that they were saved, and the Turks didn't care that Europe was saved, and the Mongols were out pillaging and raping and didn't care either. But Europe was saved anyway. The Turks saved Islam as well, which was also by accident since the Turks were saving themselves to begin with when the Mongols devastated the regions to the east. Mongols could have had a treaty then, too, and stopped and all lived happily ever after, but as usual somebody screwed it up and the conquest continued. Mongols remained in Palestine and intermarried and are assimilated now, as are Crusaders. All Palestinians now.

[Notforprophet]

Hey Woody - I'm feeling left out here! You never call me anymore! ;)

You turned suddenly silent after my post #169... was that because you agree with me, or just that you don't have a smarmy, holier-than-thou answer prepared?

[Velveeta]

The date on your Guardian article was a little spooky.

Indeed it was, that is the reason that there was so little mention of this in the news.

[CCWoody]

Ouch, Woody....please don't ever presume that you have the first bit of knowledge about my faith. ~ Velveeta

Excuse me, but I quoted it word for word from the Bible. If you do not believe that Jesus died on the Cross, then your faith is indeed empty exactly as Paul says in the Corinthians letter.

Woody, are you quoting to me from the newly revised Bible? No, I guess you wouldn't be since the VATICAN SCHOLARS are still working on it and have not finished re-writing it yet. It will be *fascinating and interesting* to see which revelations make it into the revised copy. Vatican scholars prepare to rewrite the Bible. ~ Velveeta

Now, you are just blantly lying about what the Vatican is doing in order to justify your beliefs. Are you going to actually try and convince me that Rome intends to "rewrite" the Bible so that:


• Jesus did not die on the Cross.
• Jesus married and had kids.

If so, I wonder what some of the other Catholics here at FR think about it.

Woody.

[ZULU]

Knights Templar???

Bunkum.

The closest parallel to the Knights Templar are the Freemasons.

The "Holy Grail" was a figurative product of medieval religiosity, unlike the Ark of the Covenant which still exist at Axum in Ethiopia.

What wasted research!! But, hey, its a free world (at least the non-Islamic part of it, that is).

[Velveeta]

I think Woody's been a little busy telling me that my faith is empty. ~sniff~
I guess I'll need to work harder to be as full of....faith.....as Woody.

[CCWoody]

Before I address your comments directly, please answer the following:

• Do you believe that Jesus did not die on the Cross?
• Do you believe that Jesus did marry a woman and had kids?

Woody.

[CCWoody]

I think Woody's been a little busy telling me that my faith is empty. ~sniff~ I guess I'll need to work harder to be as full of....faith.....as Woody. ~ Velveeta

Now you are lying about what I said. I merely quoted the Apostle Paul. Evidently you don't believe that Jesus died on the Cross, judging from your personalization of what the Apostle Paul said.

Woody.

It is amazing how many Masons here claim to be Christian, but deny the very Word of God itself!

[RnMomof7]

It is nice to have the tag line back I missed it

[wideawake]

Vatican scholars prepare to rewrite the Bible

It's interesting, Velveeta, that you would trust a source like the The Guardian, known for its leftist politics and its disdain for Bible Christians.

The article is, of course, a blatant misrepresentation.

The Pontifical Biblical Commission is reviewing the Biblical texts of Jeremiah and others found in the Dead Sea Scrolls to see if they are of any value in reconstructing the original texts.

As you know, every Biblical text and every Biblical translation from the Septuagint to the King James Bible to the NIV is based on the translators critical judgment of hundreds of fine points of textual criticism.

No two Bible translations are the same - and every Hebrew and Greek edition of the OT and NT are based on blends of many individual handwritten versions of the Scriptures. No two copies of the Bible before the invention of printing have been identical.

One famous example: in 1 Samuel 13:1 all the Hebrew texts say that Saul reigned two years, even though we know from other evidence in the Scriptures that he reigned much longer. The King James Bible changes it to saying that he had reigned two years when the event in question happened in an attempt to make sense out of the passage.

Clearly what happened is that along the way some inattentive scribe accidentally put in the wrong number and that the original text gave the correct one.

The Dead Sea Scrolls may be able to shed light on small textual issues of this kind and all Christian denominations, including Catholics, will probably be modifying their textual research to take account of the DSS evidence.

It's quite funny because for years, the Catholic Church was mocked for taking so long to revise its Scriptural texts in accordance with textual research. Now it's being mocked for taking textual research too seriously.

Any stick will do to beat Catholics with, eh, Velveeta? Even if it's a liberal UK newspaper.

[Velveeta]

If you do not believe that Jesus died on the Cross, then your faith is indeed empty

Woody, for crying out loud, I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER said that I don't believe that He died on the cross. What I've said was that I read a book (which YOU have NOT read) and one research hypothesis, BY THE AUTHORS...states that Mary Magdalene may have had a child by Jesus. IF this could EVER be proven to be true, I wouldn't have a problem with it....it wouldn't shake my faith.

Now, you are just blantly lying about what the Vatican is doing in order to justify your beliefs

I'M LYING about a Guardian UK article???? I provided you with the link Woody, did you read the article??

My point with the article was to demonstrate to you that recent discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi scrolls are taken seriously by the VATICAN. The bible will be changed Woody, whatever changes that will include, I have NO IDEA, heck, maybe they'll add the Gospel of Thomas...maybe they'll tone the parts about Mary Magdalene being a prostitute.

I'm ready...are you?

[SauronOfMordor]

Finally, in no way is it blasphemous to postulate that Jesus may have been married and that He may even have fathered children.

Back in Catholic high school theology class, we spent a term discussing, among other things, whether Jesus had married, including discussing a book entitled "Was Jesus Married?"

In Jewish tradition of the time, the father of a teen was supposed to find a suitable bride and arrainge a marriage for him. The idea of waiting until 30 before getting married is a very late phenomenon. Jesus would have been considered strange if he had not been married. If Jesus had never married, it would have been unusual enough the one would expect some comment to be made in the Gosples about the fact and why.

[ET(end tyranny)]

In short, Christians should steer clear of Baigent's ridiculous, ahistorical, made-up fantasyland of a book and stick to Scripture and reputable historians.

Is Irenaeus reputable?

[Velveeta]

Any stick will do to beat Catholics with, eh, Velveeta? Even if it's a liberal UK newspaper

I'm getting in over my head here.....but, I'll give it a shot.

1)There were several articles, not just the Guardian UK which have covered this story. If you'd like, I can provide more links for you.

2) Have you seen me beating Catholics? Do you know anything about me? Do you see me judging anyone else's FAITH? Do you see ME calling anyone here a liar?

[Captiva]

I would just like to know if there are vaults and what if anything are in them sans controversial relics.

Al Capone's treasure?