(sigh) Yes, Lincoln was against slavery, but he also was against the blacks it brought with it. He wanted them gone, and not amongst whites. Most of the quotes you provided prove my point. I won't deny he thought slavery wrong because it oppressed others, but I also won't deny he thought those others inferior and wanted them to excercise their rights far away from any white people. BTW, he also thought Hispanics were "mongrels", but that is another issue. I'll start by providing the quotes you wanted me to provide to verify the points I made (that Lincoln: 1-thought blacks are inferior, 2-was against intermarriage, 3-wanted to ship them off to Africa) Once again, I'm not unfairly judging him by modern standards, I'm refuting your revisionist claptrap which attempts to make him into something he wasn't. Here's those quotes:
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races [applause]: that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." -- Reply by Abraham Lincoln to Stephen A. Douglas in the first joint debate, Ottowa, IL; 21 Aug 1858
"What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races." Abraham Lincoln, from a speech in Springfield, IL; 17 July 1858
"Such separation ... must be effected by colonization ... to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be." - Abraham Lincoln, from a speech delivered in Springfield, IL; 26 June, 1857
"I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I strongly favor colonization...in congenial climes, and with people of their own blood and race." Abraham Lincoln, Annual message to Congress; 1 Dec 1862
"I believe it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves." Abraham Lincoln, 1865
Lincoln clearly was preparing the way for black suffrage.
LOL - Preparing the way for more soldiers is more like it.
It was a direct result of this speech, and this position, that Booth shot him.
(sigh) If you really think that's all there is to the Lincoln assassination, then you're just silly.
"Drive back to the support of the rebellion the physical force which the colored people now give, and promise us, and neither the present, or any incoming administration can save the Union." To others he said it even more emphatically. "This is not a question of sentiment or taste, but one of physical force which may be measured and estimated. Keep it and you can save the Union. Throw it away, and the Union goes with it."
YES! Finally you get it, he saw the use of blacks, especially Southern blacks, as manpower to fight the war and "preserve the union" while at the same time undermining the manpower of the South. He says it plainly in the quote you gave. It's about time you realised the obvious. He was preparing the way for more soldiers and subverting the strength of the enemy at the same time. His objectives are clear.
This is spurious quote created by Benjamin Butler, a known and notorious liar.
Racial equality and integration of White and Black as equals weren't considered real options in 19th century America. For at least about 35 years, Americans have accepted the equality of Black and White as a matter of course. That wasn't the case for 19th century Americans. It was something that had to be proven to them, and even then few would accept it. For Lincoln, the participation of Blacks in fighting units was this sort of eye-opening experience. How far he would have gone in the direction of equality is a matter of contention, but most Americans either didn't have such an eye-opener, or rejected equality nevertheless.
David Donald, Lincoln's biographer notes that Lincoln was never in favor of forced colonization. It was, rather, something that he thought African-Americans would embrace if it were properly explained to them. When they didn't, and chose instead to stay and fight for their freedom, Lincoln had to reassess his convictions and assumptions. Donald also notes that for all practical purposes, government support of colonization schemes withered after 1863. Montgomery Blair, the Postmaster General, was an ardent proponent of colonization, but no real resources or effort were devoted to the plan after the Emancipation Proclamation.
Lincoln said publicly in the 1850's -- in the debates with Douglas in fact -- that the negro was included in the Declaration of Independence -- that he was, "...in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."
You can't shoehorn a desire to force negroes out of the country into that.
Lincoln might have been glad in the 1850's to snap his fingers and have all blacks gone. But after they were soldiers under Old Glory, he dropped that idea and began to clear the way for full rights for them.
This is all so ridiculous. There can be no doubt that Lincoln's ideas were far advanced above most people of his day.
"And yet again, there are in the United States and territories, including the District of Columbia, 433,643 free blacks. At $500 per head they are worth over two hundred millions of dolars. How comes this vast amount of property to be running about without owners? We do not see free horses or free cattle running at large. How is this? All these free blacks are the descendants of slaves, or have been slaves themselves, or they would be slaves now, but for something which has operated on their white owners, inducing them, at vast pecuniary sacrifices, to liberate them. What is that something? Is there any mistaking it? In all cases it is your sense of justice, and human sympathy, continually telling you, that the poor negro has some natural right to himself-- that those who deny it, and make mere merchandise of him, deserve kickings, contempt and death...
The doctrine of self-government is right -- absolutely and eternally right -- but it has no just application, as here attempted. Or perhaps I should rather say that whether it has such application depends upon whether a negro is not or is a man. If he is not a man, why in that case, he who is a man may, as a matter of self-government, do just as he pleases with him. But if the negro is a man, is it not to that extent a total destruction of self-government, to say that he too shall not govern himself? When the white man governs himself that is self-government; but when he governs himself, and also governs another man, that is more than self-government -- that is despotism. If the negro is a man, why then my ancient faith teaches me that "all men are created equal;" and there can be no moral right in connection with one man's making a slave of another."
Your position is as false as it hateful.
Walt
A quick net search shows me you got your quote from a hate group site, or they used the exact same text you did:
http://www.scvcamp469-nbf.com/lincolnquotes.htm
Here is a more complete quote from the Ottowa debate:
"Now gentlemen, I don't want to read at any greater length, but this is the true complexion of all I have ever said in regard to the institution of slavery and the black race. This is the whole of it, and anything that argues me into his idea of perfect social and political equality with the negro, is but a specious and fantastic arrangement of words, by which a man can prove a horse chestnut to be a chestnut horse. [Laughter.]
I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which in my judgment will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position.
I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. [Loud cheers.] I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects---certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man." [Great applause.]
You try out of context quotes to suggest interpretations that the record won't support.
I wouldn't look to those lying bums at the Sons of Confederate Veterans for my facts if I were you.
Walt
President Lincoln changed his position:
John A. Andrew
Executive Mansion,
Washington, February 18. 1864.
Yours of the 12th was received yesterday. If I were to judge from the letter, without any external knowledge, I should suppose that all the colored people South of Washington were struggling to get to Massachusetts; that Massachusetts was anxious to receive and retain the whole of them as permament citizens; and that the United States Government here was interposing and preventing this. But I suppose these are neither really the facts, nor meant to be asserted as true by you. Coming down to what I suppose to be the real facts, you are engaged in trying to raise colored troops for the U. S. and wish to take recruits from Virginia, through Washington, to Massachusetts for that object; and the loyal Governor of Virginia, also trying to raise troops for us, objects to you taking his material away; while we, having to care for all, and being responsible alike to all, have to do as much for him, as we would have to do for you, if he was, by our authority, taking men from Massachusetts to fill up Virginia regiments. No more than this has been intended by me; nor, as I think, by the Secretary of War. There may have been some abuses of this, as a rule, which, if known, should be prevented in future.
If, however, it be really true that Massachusetts wishes to afford a permanent home within her borders, for all, or even a large number of colored persons who will come to her, I shall be only too glad to know it. It would give relief in a very difficult point; and I would not for a moment hinder from going, any person who is free by the terms of the proclamation or any of the acts of Congress."
A. Lincoln
John Andrew was the governor of Massachusetts. He was a leading abolitonist and played a big role in raising the 54th and 55th Mass. Inf. regiments, as seen in the movie Glory.
Walt
And you'll find almost no reference to colonization from Lincoln for the rest of the war.
The commissioner of colonization reported to Lincoln in October, 1864 that he had not been paid since June, and that all his files had been removed "long before."
Lincoln tried to get blacks and whites to buy off on colonization, saying to a group of border state represrentatives:
"Upon these considerations I have again begged your attention to the message of March last. Before leaving the capitol, consider and discuss it among yourselves. You are patriots and statesmen, and as such, I pray you, consider this proposition; and, at least, commend it to the consderation of your states and people. As you would perpetuate popular government for the best people in the world, I beseech you that you do in no wise admit this. Our common country is in great peril, demanding the loftiest views, and boldest action to bring it speedy relief. Once relieved, it's form of government is saved to the world; it's beloved history, and cherished memories, are vindicated; and it's happy future fully assured, and rendered inconceivably grand. To you, more than any others, the privilege is given, to assure that happiness, and swell that grandeur, and to link your own names therewith forever."
That was 1862.
In the Hodges letter of 4/4/64 he said:
"When in March, and May and July 1862 I made earnest, and succcessive appeals to the border states to favor compensated emancipation, I believed the indispensable neccessity for military emancipation and arming the blacks would come, unless averted by that measure. They declined the proposition; and I was, in my best judgment, driven to the alternative of either surrendering the Union, and with it the Constitution, or of laying strong hand upon the colored element. I chose the latter."
President Lincoln knew that for better or worse, blacks were going to be living in this country and he said:
"When you give the Negro these rights, when you put a gun in his hands, it prophesies something more: it foretells that he is to have the full enjoyment of his liberty and his manhood."
And that was what he was working for.
Walt