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Bob Barr: Crimes before the fact (Police Gestapolike behavior chilling in the extreme)
washtimes ^ | 1/9/2003 | Bob Barr

Posted on 01/09/2003 11:23:50 AM PST by TLBSHOW

Edited on 07/12/2004 4:00:18 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

In last year's mega-hit movie "Minority Report," starring Tom Cruise in a mid-21st-century sci-fi thriller, D.C. police identify persons who have not yet committed a crime, but who, based on premonition evidence are going to commit a crime, and then swoop in and arrest these pre-criminals before they can carry out their dastardly deeds.


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: fairfax; fairfaxco; policegestapolike; virginia
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1 posted on 01/09/2003 11:23:50 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: TLBSHOW
Great article! Barr is right, it's amazing how easily people can be stampeded...
2 posted on 01/09/2003 11:27:31 AM PST by eshu
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To: TLBSHOW
When I heard of John Poindexter's new system to watch everything we do on internet, etc., I thought immedicately of MINORITY REPORT. I didn't see the movie yet, but my 21 year old son told me about it.
3 posted on 01/09/2003 11:27:35 AM PST by buffyt (Republicans = Working Class. Democrats = Welfare Class.)
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To: Uncle Bill
any links?
4 posted on 01/09/2003 11:27:38 AM PST by TLBSHOW (Keep their feet to the Fire! End Affirmative Action........)
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To: TLBSHOW
I think I have come up with the answer to defeat what the cops are doing here. Cops are used to being able to apply breathalayzer tests to motorists suspected of drunk driving without a warrant, under the terms of implied consent - that, by accepting your driver's license, you consent to a search of your blood alcohol level upon request and without a warrant, and if you refuse your license is suspended. However, implied consent does NOT apply to testing someone in a bar, as driving is not involved - if the cops ask someone to take a breathalyzer, they should demand that the cops first obtain a search warrant, and if the cops give them a hard time (because they are so used to this under implied consent), the person has very good grounds for a lawsuit.

Unfortunately, most people are so used to the concept of police administering a breathalyzer test that they do not realize the difference between driving and other situations - so they submit voluntarily, and lose their 4th A rights in the process.

5 posted on 01/09/2003 11:30:49 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: TLBSHOW
Well, of course Bob Barr is going to defend the individual rights of bar patrons!!
6 posted on 01/09/2003 11:32:20 AM PST by Redbob (Denton County)
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To: TLBSHOW
The department's explanation that it is against the law to be intoxicated in a public place (including a bar), is nonsense, even if, in a hyper-technical sense, correct. Someone perhaps ought to remind Fairfax County that bars actually exist as places in which people drink alcohol; it's not only legal, it's encouraged.

The absurdity of their argument is that it is also illegal to consume alcoholic beverages in public places under Virginia law. So under their reading of bars as public places, everyone in the bar is therefore breaking the law.

I have a feeling the first judge who is assigned this case is gonna rip some of Fairfax's County's finest a new orifice...

7 posted on 01/09/2003 11:33:06 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
Bttt
8 posted on 01/09/2003 11:33:32 AM PST by TLBSHOW (Keep their feet to the Fire! End Affirmative Action........)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: TLBSHOW
It's getting closer to the backlash. Let's hope it's not violent.
10 posted on 01/09/2003 11:34:39 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: sheamanski
Placing thumb on the problem, ACLU lawyers cruise in some of these bars.

Are they drunk or is it that they just act that way?

11 posted on 01/09/2003 11:37:38 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: All
Police shoot family dog as family screams for mercy, the police showed no mercy. I hope the cop is taken off the force AND locked up and the Police are sued out of business.
TLBSHOW

COOKEVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- Police video released Wednesday showed a North Carolina family kneeling and handcuffed, who shrieked as officers killed their dog -- which appeared to be playfully wagging its tail -- with a shotgun during a traffic stop.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/819376/posts?page=11#11

12 posted on 01/09/2003 11:38:46 AM PST by TLBSHOW (Keep their feet to the Fire! End Affirmative Action........)
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To: TLBSHOW
Excellent article by Congressman Barr.

Somehow I doubt that the bars frequented by police officers in our fine county are subject to this sort of scrutiny.

An enterprising news outfit could pull together some very entertaining footage by sending a film crew into a few local cop bars with cameras rolling, to ask some bombed off-duty officers whether bar patrons should be subject to undercover stings...

13 posted on 01/09/2003 11:39:35 AM PST by Interesting Times
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To: TLBSHOW
This actually is a frightening scenario that one hopes is nipped in the bud.

Whose job is it to call off the brown shirts? BTW, the few cops I know are booze hounds themselves.

14 posted on 01/09/2003 11:40:17 AM PST by Fred Mertz (Gestapo in Virginia)
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To: eshu
Barr, the same SUPER_WOD rep that was ousted in the last election cycle is a firm believer in preemptive police measures, this article notwithstanding.

As a staunch supporter of the WOD, he obviously believes that getting drugs off the streets prevents crime even though those taking drugs commit no "real" time while consuming them...same scenario, same effect, same purpose.

EBUCK

15 posted on 01/09/2003 11:40:19 AM PST by EBUCK (....reloading....praparing to FIRE!!!)
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To: sheamanski
The cops are the disgusting ones in these stories. So you want to give your freedom to these nazis?
16 posted on 01/09/2003 11:40:33 AM PST by TLBSHOW (Keep their feet to the Fire! End Affirmative Action........)
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To: dirtboy
According to the lawyer guy on Fox, whose name escapes me this second, the people have the right NOT to submit to those tests.
17 posted on 01/09/2003 11:43:44 AM PST by Howlin (I cannot stop playing Collapse II -- HELP ME!)
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To: sheamanski
Barr is a loser.. ACLU has done more damage to this country than any other entity..they are just tooling barr and whats the other losers name..? THe only jobs you could get after leaving office??? Weak...but then again..we have no founding father like figures today.

That "other loser" happens to be Dick Armey, last seen killing off Operation TIPS. Both Barr and Armey were instrumental in preventing national ID cards and Know Your Customer. What have YOU done to protect liberty?

--- crickets ---

You are in no position to be calling those two honorable men losers. However, I can think of plenty of applicable names for you...

18 posted on 01/09/2003 11:43:52 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: sheamanski
Bill of Rights Version 3.0 (thanks for your suggestions!)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

(No longer relevant - see: Deconstructing the Second Amendment

Amendment III

No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

(No longer relevant - see: War on the Constitution

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

(No longer relevant - see: Seizure Fever: The War on Property Rights

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

(No longer relevant - see: Is This man's case worth suspending the United States Constitution?

Amendment VII

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


19 posted on 01/09/2003 11:45:51 AM PST by eshu
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To: Howlin
According to the lawyer guy on Fox, whose name escapes me this second, the people have the right NOT to submit to those tests.

Exactly. Cops can demand a breathalyzer test to a suspected drunk driver without a warrant under implied consent. That does NOT apply to someone in a bar, and I've dug all around the Virginia code and have not found out where a .08 level is the determinant for public intoxication - instead, it is the level where someone is considered too impaired to operate a motor vehicle. If the cops demand that a bar patron submit to a breathalyzer, they should demand that the cops obtain a search warrant.

20 posted on 01/09/2003 11:46:12 AM PST by dirtboy
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