Ancient Navigators Could Have Measured Longitude -- in Egypt in 232 B.C. !

21st Century: Science and Technology Magazine ^ | Fall 2001 | Rick Sanders

[ex-Texan]

Bravo ! Great post.

Take a peek at the new book Decipher by Stel Pavlou, mentioned in my # 12 Post. I just finished it, and plan to reread it again very soon. Marvelous, simply marvelous.

[katana]

I stand corrected (well, sit corrected actually).

[Centurion2000]

bump

[ex-Texan]

Having done quite a bit of personal research on Mohammed and the Muslim faith, I agree with your assessment. In fact, many authorities have to rather harsh conclusions including that of the reformer Martin Luther, who quite simply pronounced Mohammed to have falle under "Satanic" influences.

According to Sir William Muir, Marcus Dods, and some others, Mohammed was at first sincere, but later, carried away by success, he practised deception wherever it would gain his end. Koelle "finds the key to the first period of Mohammed's life in Khadija, his first wife", after whose death he became a prey to his evil passions [Demonstated by his repeated rape of his nine year old 'wife' -- my comment].

Sprenger attributes the alleged revelations to epileptic fits, or to "a paroxysm of cataleptic insanity".

Zwemer himself goes on to criticize the life of Mohammed by the standards, first, of the Old and New Testaments, both of which Mohammed acknowledged as Divine revelation; second, by the pagan morality of his Arabian compatriots; lastly, by the new law of which he pretended to be the "divinely appointed medium and custodian". According to this author, the prophet was false even to the ethical traditions of the idolatrous brigands among whom he lived, and grossly violated the easy sexual morality of his own system. After this, it is hardly necessary to say that, in Zwemer's opinion, Mohammed fell very far short of the most elementary requirements of Scriptural morality. Quoting Johnstone, Zwemer concludes by remarking that the judgment of these modern scholars, however harsh, rests on evidence which "comes all from the lips and the pens of his own devoted adherents. . . And the followers of the prophet can scarcely complain if, even on such evidence, the verdict of history goes against him".

"Cataleptic insanity" ... and demonic possession sums up the true nature Mohammed and Islam in my view.

[lds23]

Thanks for the mail.

btw - I recently used that verse from Ephesians as my choice of readings for our wedding.

[restornu]

Why are you trying to hyjack thread to continue your animosity towards the LDS faith! I flag you to this News thread because the topic was about history and interesting I am sure these folks could careless about your distorted views! They can fine that on the on the Religious fourm! BTW there is a 400 years different between 600 B.C.to 232 B.C.

[Spirited]

"The Egyptian word for pyramid is derived from their word for "horizon", not "border"."

The author quoted, E. Raymond Capt, a member of the Archeological Institute of America, acknowledges the pioneers of Pyramidology such as Greaves, Menzies, Smyth, Flinders, the Rutherfords, etc.

I suspect that when he used what many of these others said (that Gizeh means border in the language) it is likely to be so. You are, of course, entitled to quarrel with all of them.

His very reasonably priced book, The Great Pyramid Decoded", would particularly appeal to those mathematically inclined. He, by the way, is among those who believe it was built in the reign of Khufu. (These days that belief is a prerequisite to obtain Egyptian government permission to permit a scientist to investigate the edifice.) So much for "scientific proof" or truth.

You will notice that the major books written in the 1800's did not use the more recently employed "Pyramid of Cheops" appellation. The controversial Vyse "discovery" so eagerly adopted by the government of Egypt has been a windfall for them but they have been singularly loathe to allow much modern technology to be used to determine anything about the Great Pyramid or the Sphinx.

Herodotus' writings on the subject were penned at a date farther removed from the building of the Pyramid than we are from the dates of the life and writings of Herodotus.

Every cult in the world and the Egyptian government in particular has a vested interest in the Great Pyramid.
You can even take tours online.

I imagine one can find a website to substantiate almost anything one wants to believe about the Great Pyramid. I doubt that some of us can find even one with which we agree without reservation. In the spirit of that statement these are a few which bear in some way on the discussion here:

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/pyramid.html
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/Misc_Studies/ms003.htm
http://www.greatpyramid.org/aip/gr-pyr1.htm

[Focault's Pendulum]

bump for later read.

[RnMomof7]

Moors defeated the Tours in 732...4th grade history

[RightWhale]

Thanks. History comes alive on FR.

The new Library of Alexandria is apparently open for business and should have an Internet presence. It's modern, massive, intended to be world-class, nothing like the Clinton double-wide.

[Semper911]

Great read bump

[T. P. Pole]

Moors defeated the Tours in 732...4th grade history

Well, yes, but most folks don't make the connection between the Moors being Muslim, and their defeat at Tours being the turning point between a Muslim Europe and a Christian Europe. Imagine all of Europe being an arab state. No western culture.

[John Locke]

I have no quarrel with the eminent egyptologists. My comment referred to the name of the pyramid, not that of the site. I indeed agree that "Giza" means "border" - but that is the Arabic name for the site, dating from the 7th century AD, not the ancient Egyptian one.

It would appear that your author E Raymond Capt understands neither Egyptian nor Arabic, which puts him at a certain disadvantage, no?

[muawiyah]

No, no - Napoleon was several thousand years late to knock off the original nose. In fact, there was no nose at all by the time his guardsmen came on the job. They were just adding to the cratering when they fired at the Sphinx.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

I believe it was Obelix who broke off the Sphinx's nose, although the hair that broke the camels back (Sphinx's schnoz?) may actually have been the weight of Dogmatix who may have been handging from Gerard Depardieu at the time...But I could be wrong.

[Orion78]

The Epigraphic Society Occasional Publications and Papers

[Orion78]

Renaissance Torquetum (1603 A.D.)

[Orion78]

"In Plain Sight - Old World Records in Ancient America" By Gloria Farley

---

"America BC - America Before Columbus" By Berry Fell

[Spirited]

"My sources say the Pyramid of Cheops was called akhet khufu, which means, unsurprisingly, "pyramid of cheops". The Egyptian word for pyramid is derived from their word for "horizon", not 'border'."

Since you do not accept the title "Great Pyramid of Giza" and that title was the one commonly used by the early Pyramidologists I named (who were not listed as Egyptologists to my knowledge) I am certain that you can use what you think is the ancient name and I can feel free not to do so.

As for the word Gizeh, we at least agree that it is "border" in Arabic. The words Great and Pyramid are neither Arabic nor Egyptian, yet we use those as names of the edifice while at or of Giza denotes location.

If the early explorers who became Pyramidologists spoke either Egyptian or Arabic in any degree of mastery it would be amazing. It did not hamper their work or bring it into question (even though many times their conclusions have proven fanciful).

W.M.F.Petrie the "father of modern archaeology' who is also considered an Egyptologist named his book 'The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh'. He is highly regarded even today by Dr.Z Hawass the Egyptian who was and I believe may still be in charge of the Pyramids on the plain of Giza on behalf of the Egyptian government. I do not find any evidence that Petrie had any command of the language of Egypt although he had the rudimentary grammar of French,Greek and Latin as was usual bare minimum in that day.
http://home.uleth.ca/geo/vitae.htm

I suspect that you need to use the Egyptian name which you have learned and I feel just as comfortable using the English name which also appends the word Giza as the British Petrie did.

When talking about this Pyramid none of us is likely to agree with any of the rest of us as to almost anything said about it. Here most any of us may stand accused of "straining at gnats and swallowing camels".

Sorry Capt's gnat was a choke point for you as the Egyptian name must be for me since I do not speak or comprehend the Egyptian language and when I was taught the listed seven wonders of the world in school the phrase taught to me was The Great Pyramid at(or of) Giza.

Blessings!

[John Locke]

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad we have clarified the issues, and also agree that many people who have studied the Great Pyramid have come to fanciful conclusions. (That, by the way, one one of the things that motivated me to learn Egyptian - what did these marvellous people have to say in their own words?).

Blessings likewise to you.