USS Harry S. Truman carrier in joint exercise with Albanian army

fox29.com ^ | 28 Jan 2003 | AP

[Destro]

It is true that the Albanians are not a particularly well-equipped modern force. However, within Albania are vast stores of COMBLOC weapons which are distributed to their terrorist units as needed. The criminal adventures of the KLA and their Macedonian counterparts show their "irregulars" are very well-equipped indeed with transport, explosives, portable artillery (RPGs Recoiless Weapons, even CHICOM TOWs, automatic weapons, and have an effective, if primitive, logistics set-up.

Furthermore, the Albanians are extremely well financed with the criminal proceeds of the Greater Albanian criminal enterprises, millions from Saudi Arabia, al-qaida, the Palestinians, and now, apparently, us. I shouldn't be at all surprised if they are still not receiving aid from China, as well. The only possible rationale for having any relationship with these bastards is a mis-guided desire to take over the strategic sub base the CHICOM were establishing on the Straits, or the mythical Balkan pipeline, perennially in the planning stages, which is intended to get Russian oil to us more efficiently.

There are plenty of other routes available through real countries. No oil pipeline is worth having to deal with these with these feral, destructive Muslim tribesmen. Round'em up. Put'em all in Albania.

6 posted on 01/29/2003 12:40 PM EST by Kenny Bunk

Macedonia - A Connection Between NATO and the NLA?

BIN LADEN GATE

[r9etb]

Well, a horror to me as a Western Christian and or secularists.

I won't deny that their societies are not quite what we in the West would consider perfect. But Turkey, Egypt, and Jordan are for the most part very civilized and relatively free countries, with which we are able to deal without having to hold our noses. (Turkey, BTW, is a long-standing and loyal ally.)

Saudi, Kuwait, and Qatar aren't that bad, though probably not up to the standards of the first three.

"Horror" is a term usually applied to places that do horrible things, such as Taliban Afghanistan, Iraq, or North Korea.

[Destro]

Turkey is teh best ally money can buy.

[r9etb]

You can't defend your comments. I'm done.

[Ichabod Walrus]

I wonder if we will see the Albanian flag added to the parade of "new Europe" allies here on FR.

Funny thing is, I haven't read of any declaration by the Albanian government supporting Bush's war on Iraq. Nor have I heard of any similar declaration from the governments of Slovenia; Croatia, the "Croat-Muslim Federation" in Bosnia, or Macedonia. I haven't heard of any declaration from that most stalwart ally, the Kosovo Liberation Army whose experience in terrorism must surely make it an excellent asset in the War On Terrorism.

While all of the aforementioned owe their entire "New Europe" existence to the depraved hegemonistic meddling of the United States, you would have thought they could at least show some gratitude to their patron, but they refuse to.

All of it makes me wonder if Charlie Manson could win parole simply by declaring he supports Bush's War on Terrorism.

[bob808]

Good for Albania, and good for us...

You're talking about blood feuding, drug running, KLA sponsoring, white slavery Albania???

Just a suggestion, but (despite Joe Lieberman's endorsement of "fighting for the KLA is fighting for American values"), you may want to rethink that one.

[newgeezer]

Oh, I thought you meant Elbonians.

[The Grammarian]

Destro, was that post meant to be as insulting as I took it? Note that both of our posts were essentially agreeing with your position.

[Destro]

I bumped you because we were both in agreement and was I budding into your conversation.

[Destro]

Turkey is a nightmare state for CHristians. Just because its Uncle Sam's bitch in the region does not mean it is worthy of respect. Just like American "ally" Indonesuia was getting help from Clinton's Pentagon as their Indonesian army supplied Muslim gangs were butchering Christians n Indonesia proper (mostly Chinese) and in East Timor (native Catholics).

Turkey is a horror show for native Christians but we overlook it because we need their bases and their so called secularist Muslim fig leaf (and for Israel's sake): Death Watch: One of the earliest Christian cultures totters on the edge of extinction in Turkey

[r9etb]

Well, I read the article. What it describes is a Turkish policy giving them basic freedom of worship, while denying them the right to own property, or teach in their traditional language.

This is wrong, to be sure. But the Turks are not killing these Christians, and the situation does not fit your description of "horror." Horror is the sort of thing practiced in places like Iraq.

And I will further point out that this does not represent our "courting turning bad," as was your original claim. Nor, bad as it is, does it justify our turning Turkey into an enemy, as your position would suggest.

I would recommend that in the future you select your words and arguments more carefully.

[Destro]

Nope. All I said is Our State Dept. never met a Muslim nation it did not like at first sight. Iraq included.

Deal with that factual statement as best you can.

[Psalm 73]

I don't like to engage posters if their first response is an insult - (destro).
Thank you for your civility TG.
My point was that sometimes we have taken as "partners" nations that do not have great records, but it is better than the alternative at the time.
(Like Pinochet, Marcos, etc. - corrupt as hell, but still better than allowing communist footholds there).
OK, that said, Albania is poor as dirt, but free from one of the most oppressive communist regimes ever.
There is somewhat of a "leadership" vacuum and people are looking for some type of direction. It is better that we provide something, in order to preempt the growing Islamist influence from the Saudis.
Newly freed and/or poverty stricken people are more receptive to us and our message of hope and freedom.
Albania has a nasty recent history, but that does not mean they are not open to change, as the people themselves are fairly pro-American, whereas the Greek people are tilting more and more Anti-American.
Hey, if it's not working, we can always cut them loose, as we do not have a huge investment in them.
Let's give them a chance.

[Psalm 73]

"Hey".... can you substantiate that allegation?

Sure, they are "technically" an ally, (we play both Turks and Greeks for an obvious reason)- but their record of being a terrorist haven is not great - (Does the term "Athens Int. Airport" ring a bell?).
Is a climate of Anti-Americanism somehting one can quantify? Not really, but it is a feeling we get when we interact with the "Greek on the Street" and read translated op-eds. (Greece is a customer of ours).

[bob808]

..the situation does not fit your description of "horror." Horror is the sort of thing practiced in places like Iraq.

I think Armenians might disagree with you.

I would recommend that in the future you select your words and arguments more carefully.

You may want to heed some of your own advice there, friend.

[r9etb]

I think Armenians might disagree with you.

What happened to the Armenians was without doubt an atrocity. It also happened in 1915.

[Elenya]

The only good thing about this military cooperation is if we're spying.

My thoughts exactly.