Is It Time To Scrap Condoms And Back AIDS Prevention Programs That Work?

Toogood Reports ^ | January 31, 2003 | Mary Mostert

[Dr. Eckleburg]

mind control

You're attempting your fair share of that yourself.

"Keep telling me what you want me to see."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The concensus is that HIV coupled with certain genetic markers result in various diagnostic outcomes.

This is why you see some with HIV who appear healthy without drugs, some with HIV who remain healthy with drugs, some with HIV who become more ill with drugs, and some, like the continent of Africa, whose genetic markers are all too obvious.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

Is It Time To Scrap Condoms And Back AIDS Prevention Programs That Work?

Yeah...and mine won't cost the taxpayers $0.01...its called keep your damn legs closed.

[George W. Bush]

The concensus is that HIV coupled with certain genetic markers result in various diagnostic outcomes.

No, it's HIV=AIDS (eventually)=death. It's been that way for 25 years.

Are you telling me that you know of doctors who diagnose AIDS by the presence of HIV only if certain other genetic markers are present? Does the WHO efforts in Africa derive from such individual genetic-based diagnosis? You know they don't

So, no one actually diagnoses AIDS by any genetic markers. I've never even heard anyone say that before. No one even offers a complete genetic workup even to absolutely prove that any one particular patient even has AIDS, the only way to pursue such diagnosis as you suggest. The very few full sequencing tests that have been done were used for other laboratory purposes and had nothing to do with any individual's diagnosis. You can't even go out and buy such a sequencing to confirm HIV.

BTW, you are aware that a full genetic sequencing is the only way to determine with certainty whether any HIV virus is present. It is the only reliable test of HIV. But, of course, we never do such tests. Funny how that works.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

genetic markers

You misunderstand me. Read the link in post #33.

[George W. Bush]

You misunderstand me. Read the link in post #33.

I have. And now I went back and skimmed it for anything on genetic markers being used in diagnosis. I don't see your point. I don't think your article makes that point. And the article is more than a little conspiratorial in its general tone.

Are you referring to the high incidence of sodomites who participated in the experimental hep B trials back in the Seventies who were later diagnosed HIV+? If so, their positive test shouldn't be too surprising. Hepatitis exposure (either vaccination or past illness) causes false positives on HIV tests pretty regularly.

[happygrl]

It just doesn't add up.

Got that right.

The most disheartening thing about the past few days is reading that the latest rationale is now "where are the graves?"

Let me write as someone who has lived in Southern Africa and who knows numbers of families there.

There are graves, thousands of them. The mortality there has significantly increased. There is not a Zimbabwean family that I know - these are middle class families - who have not lost a member in the prime of life from Aids, leaving an infected spouse and eventually orphans. These people (Africans) have lived with malaria and TB for generations and know what it is and how it can be treated. The significant aspect of Aids in these countries is that it kills those in their middle years, not the grannies or the children which is typical of TB or malaria.

There is such an increase in death that urban churches that were once full on Sundays are empty because burials are on the weekends back in the rural areas. Aids is real, the increase in deaths are real. Let's move on from that spurious discussion.

[George W. Bush]

These people (Africans) have lived with malaria and TB for generations and know what it is and how it can be treated. The significant aspect of Aids in these countries is that it kills those in their middle years, not the grannies or the children which is typical of TB or malaria.

They have not lived with multi-drug resistant malaria and TB for generations. The old drugs are no longer effective. We have the same situation with disease becoming drug-resistant in this country so it should be no surprise.

From the CDC's web page on AIDS/TB convergence:

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Intersection of Two Global Epidemics

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• Approximately 2 billion people (one-third of the world's population) are infected with Mycobacterium tuberculosis, the cause of TB.
• TB is the cause of death for one out of every three people with AIDS worldwide.
• The spread of the HIV epidemic has significantly impacted the TB epidemic - one-third of the increase in TB cases over the last five years can be attributed to the HIV epidemic (Source: UNAIDS).

---

The Continued Threat of Multidrug-Resistant TB

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Every nation must face the challenge of combating multidrug-resistant (MDR) TB. People infected with HIV and living with AIDS are at greater risk for developing MDR TB. MDR TB is extremely difficult to treat and can be fatal. While the number of cases has remained stable in the United States over the past few years, people with MDR TB have now been reported from 43 states and the District of Columbia.

To prevent the continued emergence of drug-resistant strains of TB, treatment for TB must be improved in the United States and across the globe. Inconsistent or partial treatment is the main cause of TB that is resistant to available drugs (MDR-TB.) The most effective strategy for ensuring completion of treatment is Directly Observed Therapy, and its use must be expanded.

So, these people from whom you get your information have missed something. Even the AIDS establishment readily admits that one-third of all AIDS deaths are from tuberculosis. So your assertion that it is not TB is wrong. One-third of all of what we call AIDS deaths are TB deaths. The real point of contention between the AIDS establishment and AIDS heretics is whether HIV caused that TB to develop or if it was just a death due to MDR tuberculosis.

I just don't grasp it when people talk as though HIV causes a disease called AIDS. That is not in line with any of the establishment AIDS research. AIDS is the onset of one or more of about 30 diseases in a carrier of the HIV virus. Nothing else. There is no "AIDS disease"; it's a syndrome of other diseases supposedly caused by HIV virus.

[happygrl]

Yes, you are correct in stating that aids deaths can be from a variety of infections. But it doesn't negate the fact that deaths are increasing and among a cohort that is not typical for TB or malaria. There are still plenty of grannies in Africa, raising these grandchildren.

Why aren't they dying of malaria or TB ?

[George W. Bush]

I don't know. I haven't seen any granny counts and your information is anecdotal, not what one bases epidemiology upon.

Let me ask if you are saying that all African people of breeding age lead sexually promiscuous lives both inside and outside marriage? Are they really all sluts and whoremongers? Somehow, I doubt it despite the lurid tales told about insatiable African truck drivers.

[happygrl]

You can doubt a lot of things, but your uninformed opinions may not be based in reality.

The problem in Africa with regard to sexually transmitted diseases is that a culture which has been polygamous in the past is now struck full force by these infectious diseases.

I wouldn't use the terms you use "sluts and whoremongers."

There are women in Africa who trade sex for survival as there are in most cultures, including our own. Not all these women are prostitutes; many are like a number of women in this country who "link up" with men for survival. A lot of co-habitation in this country is of that type of relationship. That has been typical for women in many cultures for thousands of years. Though I wish it were otherwise, it is a survival strategy.

There is a much weaker stricture against out-of-wedlock sex for men in Africa. This derives from the culture of polygamy by which men had access to more than one woman, and women had a culturally approved avenue of attachment and means of survival. Most of Africa had traditions of purity for women until the old system broke down, just as our culture has diverted from some 2000+ years of religiously based mores.

As you may be aware, the one place in Africa which is enjoying a reduction in infection by this virus is Uganda, which is stressing abstinance before marriage and monogamy afterward. It would be interesting to see the statistics in a few years on the death rates for the cohort in the middle years of life. That might speak to some of the questions you have raised.

[George W. Bush]

Regardless of AIDS/HIV rates, the most helpful things we can do for Africa longterm is to help them to encourage sexual abstinence and fidelity, help provide clean drinking water, provide sustainable and appropriate assistance to native agriculture (not just throw food at them), help improve basic health care and bring out newer and more effective drugs against MDR TB and malaria and against the parasitic infections endemic to tropical countries.

None of this is controversial. No one disagrees that these things are needed. Whether Bush tossing 15 billion in toxic drugs at Africa will be useful, I really doubt. Without improving their general welfare in a cost-effective way that they can sustain for themselves, no amount of AIDS drugs is going to make much difference longterm anyway.

[George W. Bush]

Not all these women are prostitutes; many are like a number of women in this country who "link up" with men for survival. A lot of co-habitation in this country is of that type of relationship.

Well, it's a false security and it has destroyed many lives. Maybe it's just too much to expect women to make rational choices but it should be clear that such relationships are never in their best interests. Never. And no woman in this country has to engage in either formal or informal prostitution.

[happygrl]

It's probably too much to expect men to make moral choices as well.

The expectations should fall on both sexes.

[happygrl]

Regardless of AIDS/HIV rates, the most helpful things we can do for Africa longterm is to help them to encourage sexual abstinence and fidelity, help provide clean drinking water, provide sustainable and appropriate assistance to native agriculture (not just throw food at them), help improve basic health care and bring out newer and more effective drugs against MDR TB and malaria and against the parasitic infections endemic to tropical countries.

That's something on which we both agree.

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

So in the U.S. this means letting everyone know what the homosexual lifestyle CHOICE will do to you. That and intervenous druggies.

[snowstorm12]

I agree that I doubt this money will even put a dent in the problem without seriously changing the culture and the poor status of women there. Pesonally I think the estimates of HIV are on the low side everywhere .

In africa I think it's already too late. If they think horny males already infected are just going to start acting responsible and give up sex for the rest of their lives and start wearing condoms.....I have a nice bridge I'd like to sell them. For this thing to turn around is totally dependant on the women. Women are the limiting factor in the frequency of heterosexual sex, but when they're kept poor things like child prostitution, trading sex for food/resources are rampant and the men like it that way because they have much bigger desperate pool of women they have complete access to.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

aids is a syndrome of other diseases

That's a pretty superficial way to look at it.

There's much to suggest Aids is caused by one of several HIV viruses which may well have been created by combining bovine leukaemia virus with a sheep visna virus.

This new virus was capable of destroying the immune system by killing off T-cells. Because very few viruses jump species, this new virus was further manipulated to attack human T-cells, leaving the host open to many possible diseases.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thanks for your well-reasoned, eye-witness observations.

There, but for the grace of God...

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Bump to #47, an important, first-hand post.