BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

Post #718 = Very funny

Post # 720 = HYSTERICAL !!!!!

[TLBSHOW]

White House Was Warned of Shuttle Safety
By Randall Mikkelsen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A former NASA (news - web sites) safety official wrote to President Bush (news - web sites) last year to warn of "another catastrophic space shuttle accident," but Bush did not see the letter and the writer's plea was rejected, the White House said on Monday.


Columbia broke up on Saturday as it began to reenter the atmosphere over Texas, shortly before it was to land.


White House spokesman Ari Fleischer (news - web sites) said Bush had not seen the letter written to him on Aug. 25, 2002, by former NASA safety engineer Don Nelson expressing concerns over shuttle safety. "Your intervention is required to prevent another catastrophic space shuttle accident," he said.


He cited specific safety incidents including a 2000 inspection of Columbia which found 3,500 wiring defects, as well as charges such as a July 2002 inspector general's report that the shuttle safety program was not properly managed.


"The lives of our astronauts and the future of our space program must not be ignored," he said. He urged Bush to limit the size of the shuttle's crew to four until an escape pod was built.


Such a pod would not have saved Columbia's astronauts, experts have said.


White House science adviser John Marburger wrote back to Nelson on Dec. 4, saying his office had discussed the concerns with NASA officials. "NASA places a high priority on safety and has instituted a program of developing and implementing safety upgrades to reduce the risk to space shuttle crews," he said.


"Based on these discussions I do not think that it is appropriate for the president to issue a moratorium on space shuttle launches at this time." Fleischer said on Sunday that an escape pod would not have saved Columbia's astronauts.


Bush, who is to attend a memorial for the astronauts at the Johnson Space Flight Center in Houston on Tuesday, received a briefing on Monday from NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe on the investigation into the Columbia disaster and the two spoke of their determination to return to space.


"While we grieve for these astronauts, the cause for which they died will continue. America's journey into space will go on," Bush said in a speech to employees at the National Institutes of Health (news - web sites).


As he briefed the president O'Keefe said he intended "to get back into space as soon as possible with all safety issues having been fully, fully explored," Fleischer said.


Bush, who is to attend a memorial service in Houston on Tuesday for the shuttle crew, asked about the well-being of the astronauts' families and NASA morale, and looked ahead to an eventual resumption of flights, Fleischer said.


"The president talked about the status of the next crews and the morale of the next crew and how they are ready to go as soon as they are able to go back into space." He said, however, Bush did not suggest a timetable for the investigation. Shuttle flights have been grounded following Saturday's accident.


Bush proposed a 22 percent increase on Monday for the space shuttle program in his fiscal 2004 federal budget request to Congress, which was prepared before the Columbia disaster. He requested $3.9 billion for the program, compared with $3.2 billion in 2003.


Administration officials left the door open to further increases if sought by Congress. They said it was too early to consider whether to replace the lost shuttle -- one of four in the program, or to tackle other issues such as developing a successor spacecraft.


Columbia's loss has prompted calls for more spending to upgrade the aging shuttle fleet and develop a new space plane.


In addition to the space shuttle funding increase, the proposed total budget for NASA was slated for a smaller increase, rising $469 million to $15.47 billion, reflecting one-time expenses in 2003 that would not be repeated, Fleischer said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030203/ts_nm/shuttle_bush_dc_13

[Almondjoy]

First off their supplies would of run out well before another shuttle could of been sent up to meet them. Two.. I don't recall two shuttles ever meeting up in space. Three, only two of them were qualifed to spacewalk.. I'm not expert but if it's something you have to be qualifed in.. I'm sure it's not all that easy. Four, what happens with the shuttle if, when, and how it comes back down the earth. It still would of burned up but it could of landed in a major city.

On your 2nd point. Let's assume they examined all those options and concluded there was no way to get them down. Why would they inform them that they think they are all going to die??? Wouldn't it be better to let them try and bring it down.. nothing is 100% certain. Maybe they wanted them to just make it through. People under pressure make all kinds of mistakes. Better to let them just ride it out.

[KneelBeforeZod]

it may interest you to know that the Toddster gets his information from a secret base on the dark side of the moon where michael rivero lives.

[justshe]

Can you explain any of your posts on this thread?

What I see is all of them say zip zero nothing. You have added nothing to this thread. Now there was a problem here and someone made the call to gamble the lives of 7 people, who was it? Who made the call? At NASA!

Don Nelson is a hero for trying to save these people.

---

I have read the entire thread. Unlike some, I wanted information. My opinion of the original topic of this thread was posted for all to see. Did you miss it? Many have posted their opinion of this topic, isn't that what you expect people to do when you post a thread?

The purpose of posting, is, afterall, to give one's opinions or to clarify or add knowledge. I gave an opinion. In case it wasn't clear enough for you....let me restate it:

There is a vast difference between criticism of individual policies, and a concerted effort to find wrong BEFORE the facts are even known. Those who must BASH as a precursor to the gathering and analysis of all significant data, are running their own biased, ignorant agenda.

BTW.....your post to me seemed QUITE nasty. Was that your intention or am I just mis-reading your intent?

[cardinal4]

The Top Hat on the wing adds to my skepticism. That coupled with the fact that there are no windows that have a view looking down on the wing. I refuse to blame anyone for this tragedy.

[Howlin]

Now there was a problem here and someone made the call to gamble the lives of 7 people, who was it? Who made the call? At NASA!

Despicable. Absolutely despicable.

[KneelBeforeZod]

just a matter of time before the origin of that picture comes out. then a few folks will never live it down.

I wish I had kept the stuff from my NASA neighbor in MD, it was in '77 or 78. an 8x10 picture of the Enterprise, stickers etc. That would be a great souveneir 20+ years later.

[KneelBeforeZod]

you're right. NASA just was tired of the columbia, and figured they'd just let it burn up.

[KneelBeforeZod]

has everyone forgotten the hand wringing over the damage during chuck yeagers flight? they were wrong... this time some folks were right. But if they are so clever, then they should be able to explain exactly what happened. not just say "oh yeah, I was right, SOMETHING happened"

[cardinal4]

My friends Dad had a beautiful shot in his office of the Columbia landing in Florida on the back of NASAs 747. Gear down, just beginning to flare, it was awesome shot! God Bless the people at NASA, and may they rebound from this profound tragedy.

[Howlin]

[justshe]

No.....until proven differently, Don Nelson is NOT a hero. You do NOT know the accuracy of his report. You just THINK you do.

To me, at this time, Don Nelson is no different than a Scott Ritter---in the early days of his rantings. And apparently, you think the same as you are completely, 100% convinced that all that Don Nelson says is the absolute truth. You need to learn the benefits of cognitive thinking and try developing some independent, analytical skills rather than reading something and KABOOM...it becomes YOUR truth.

I, at least, am willing to give the experts the time necessary to gather and analyze data. You are just rubberstamping without analyzing. One has to wonder if this is an "intellectual processing" problem on your part, or whether you just glom onto ANY theory that purports to discredit this administration(since the memo was sent to the WH)---and NASA.

I can't even feel sorry for you anymore.

[cardinal4]

Beautiful!

[KineticKitty]

BUMP

[Darlin']

Broad, baseless accusations, not a smidgen of real proof to support that comment.

[P-Marlowe]

People under pressure make all kinds of mistakes.

Yeah, like they did in getting Apollo 13 back, right? Sorry, but people, especially the type they send into space, do their best work when they are under pressure. Its when the pressure's off that they screw up.

If anyone in authority had any second thoughts about the safety of bringing the Shuttle back into the atmosphere, they had a duty to do everything they could to make sure that what happened didn't happen. If that meant getting another shuttle ready in a week then they should have done it. They knew of the problem on liftoff. They had more than a week to get Atlantis ready with a crew of 2 experienced pilots. They could have done an up close visual inspection and if it didn't look good they could have loaded everyone into Atlantis.

Just because nobody had ever done a rescue in space does not mean that it shouldn't be tried. Indeed I bet the next few shuttle flights will be strictly rescue training exercises. Wanna take that bet?

[Rome2000]

Howevere, before posting my own ignorant opinion, I ACTUALLY READ the informed facts of other posters before filling the thread with my own useless drivel....unlike so many others here.

Do you really think that nothing could have been done?

They had 16 godammned days to determine if there was tile damage, and if there was, THINK UP A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

With an attitude like yours there would have been nothing to be done about Apollo 13 either, especially when they ran out square CO2 filters.

NASA buried its head in the sand on this.

Spy satellites could have been employed to check out the underside of the ship.

If they couldn't have gotten to the ISS, the Russians might have been able to send up a rescue ship, THEY ARE LAUNCHING A SUPPLY SHIP TO THE ISS THIS WEEK!.

The fact that no attempt was made to verify the tiles integrity is an INEXCUSABLE failure on their part.

This was a huge mistake, everybody makes them, lets not lie to ourselves

Jay Barbree emphasizes that there would still have been nothing that could have been done

Nothing could have been done?

You can bet the farm that on the next shuttle mission they will figure out a way to check the tiles before re-entry.

And if there is a problem they will AT LEAST TRY to come up with a solution instead of ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

Do ANY of you people actually read a thread before putting in your uninformed, stupid opinions?.

If you can't distinguish the between the truth and some beaurocrat trying to cover his agency with a pathetic excuse then maybe youre the one that is stupid.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

They had 16 godammned days to determine if there was tile damage, and if there was, THINK UP A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

As soon as someone needs to take the Lord's name in vain, I tend to lose interest in his opinions, but..........

This may come as a big shock to you, but sometimes "thinking up a solution" is not within man's grasp. If it were, there would be cures for all diseases, no one would ever be lost in a medical procedure, etc. In fact all problems would be solved be simply "thinking up a solution".

What a foolish statement!!!!

[Chad Fairbanks]

Do you really think that nothing could have been done?

Hmmmm... let's see... problems don't arise until they are doing mach 18 at 200,000 feet... Yeah, I think they were pretty much flat-out F**ked at that point... not a lot of time for decision making and action taking, know what I mean?

They had 16 godammned days to determine if there was tile damage, and if there was, THINK UP A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

I'll address this BS further down...

With an attitude like yours there would have been nothing to be done about Apollo 13 either, especially when they ran out square CO2 filters.

Totally different scenarios - not a good example to use... Nice try though...

NASA buried its head in the sand on this.

This early in the game, you know this with certainty? You really are ignorant...

Spy satellites could have been employed to check out the underside of the ship.

Not only ignorant, but you can't read either... See, spy satellites are used for LOOKING DOWN, at objects VERY far away - I'm sure they could just punch a few buttons, change the orbits of the satellites, and then turn the satellites to point at a shuttle that was moving pretty damned fast - not only that, but when the shuttle is orbiting, it's top is what is facing towards earth, so even if they COULD (which, they can't) use the satellites, they would see the TOP of the shuttle... Get it?

If they couldn't have gotten to the ISS, the Russians might have been able to send up a rescue ship, THEY ARE LAUNCHING A SUPPLY SHIP TO THE ISS THIS WEEK!.

This is a REALLy pathetic attempt - you say NASA buried their heads in the sand? Wanna know where I think YOUR head is buried???? Now, follow me on this, because it might be a LITTLE confusing, but there MAY be hope for you... Ready? Here goes...

The Columbia, not outfitted with the proper docking collar, could not mate/dock with the ISS. You with me so far? Good. Now, the russians send up a resupply ship for the ISS, which by it's very nature would need to be capable of docking with the ISS... can you see where I'm going with this? Well, just in case you can't, let me spell it out for you: How the HELL could the columbia dock with a ship that is outfitted to dock with the ISS if the Columbia cannot dock with the ISS? Make sense????

The fact that no attempt was made to verify the tiles integrity is an INEXCUSABLE failure on their part.

Maybe they could have just stopped at the local Intergalactic Quiki-Mart and got out and looked??? None of the crew was EVA qualified, hence no EVA Gear... So, what should they do, pop a hatch in the floorboards, and stick their head out and take a quick peek????

This was a huge mistake, everybody makes them, lets not lie to ourselves

The only one lying to themselves here is you and other people like you who don't know dick about what is being discussed...

Jay Barbree emphasizes that there would still have been nothing that could have been done

And he would be correct...

Nothing could have been done?

Yeah, that's what I just said, isn't it???

You can bet the farm that on the next shuttle mission they will figure out a way to check the tiles before re-entry.

Well, come on genius, tell us how to do it...

Do ANY of you people actually read a thread before putting in your uninformed, stupid opinions?.

Ummm... I'm thinking maybe YOU need to not only re-read the thread, but also go read 'The Idiot's Guide to The Space Shuttle' before spouting your nonsense...

If you can't distinguish the between the truth and some beaurocrat trying to cover his agency with a pathetic excuse then maybe youre the one that is stupid.

Yeah, I are sooooo stooopid. I know not nothing bout nothing... ya got me...