Air Force imagery confirms Columbia wing damaged

Spaceflightnow.com ^ | 02/07/03 | CRAIG COVAULT

[Carry_Okie]

I respectfully disagree. I think NASA is going to be more open about what they find than you might expect.

They weren't open or honest about the Challenger disaster.

[Cloud William]

I've taken the photo,used a sharpening algorithm on it and changed the gamma to give it the proper contrast. it IS the shuttle at what appears to be a 30 degree down angle vieved from the rear and travelling sideways to the left. No vertical stabilizer appears but flying sideways can play heck with that!

Got your enhanced version of that photo online where we can see it?

[Carry_Okie]

jgfxcjfxc

[Vinnie_Vidi_Vici]

see post #227 that is NOT a lens flare or an artifact of the lens iris!

[freepersup]

There is a raging debate here as to whether what we are seeing is an aperture phenomenon (illusion) or the shuttle hurtling sideways. I don't think for one second that it is anything other than the shuttle hurtling across the sky in it's final seconds of being.

There is an obvious smoke and debris contrail, hyper flight speed is apparent, debris shedding can be seen, and the image resembles the shuttle albeit distorted.

Distortion causes: poor optics, mach 18 flight speed, subject is multiple miles away, subject is emitting a heat signature which distorts it's image (think of the mirage effect by the sun heating roads or earth- 140 degrees vs the shuttle surface of 2-3,000 degrees).

The example of the aperture image provided here, to convince us that we are seeing an illusion looks nothing like the shuttle capture image. It looks like an aperture.

The shuttle capture image looks a hell of a lot more like the shuttle than it does an aperture.

[freepersup]

Agreed-

When that particular 16 second Fox news video capture was available I watched it scores of times. It was compelling. I remarked that NASA would find it useful. I intend to obtain a copy from Fox news. I would be interested in knowing the time hack on it and the location of the camerman's ground location. I think it was filmed from somewhere in western Texas.

[freepersup]

No stabilizer ?

That can be explained easy enough. The ship is traveling at mach 18, give or take a few thousand miles an hour... the stabilizer has detached from the ship as it is not designed to withstand such enormous sideways forces. In fact debris shedding is obvious in the capture.

An aperture illusion ? That's preposterous.

[freepersup]

Then why doesn't it look like a fuzzy picture of light ? It looks like the shuttle - I'm going with the shuttle.

[snopercod]

It looks like the shuttle to me, too, with a couple of reservations and questions.

It has no vertical stabilizer, but the stab would certainly have broken off at that speed and attitude.

There are "things" up above the fuselage on either side where nothing should be.

Also, I am curious about whatever video equipment this "amateur" was using. Anything that could lock on to the shuttle at that speed and distance and focus that well was not "amateur" equipment.

[Gracey]

LOL. You ARE Cool. That's the "OutPost" bar. I've been there many times starting in the early 70's.

Yes, you're cool. Love the pic. I'm smiling.

[Gracey]

Yes, you're correct. People DO wear them off base, but.... we agree. You're still cool... cool pic.

[r9etb]

There are "things" up above the fuselage on either side where nothing should be.

If I'm correct about what you're referring to, those "things" look like OMS pods to me -- with the dark spots being the OMS nozzles.

Also, I am curious about whatever video equipment this "amateur" was using. Anything that could lock on to the shuttle at that speed and distance and focus that well was not "amateur" equipment.

IIRC, it was taken by a WFAA cameraman using a professional camera. I might be wrong about that.

[isthisnickcool]

I've heard various things. Rumors. The past few days.

One of the crew sent his wife an email detailing the damage to the left wing. Saying it could bee seen from the shuttle. She apparently said something to NASA who sent a "group" to visually checked this by looking for themselves using a mockup/trainer. They concluded that it could not have been seen but others there to assist the "group" disagreed. Strongly.

Two flights back "foam/ice" came off the external fuel tank and hit one of the SRB's. After the SRB was recovered it had a large dent at the point of impact. Rumor is that some people were calling for grounding the shuttles until the "foam/ice" sloughing problem could be reviewed.

One of the crew was seated on the flight deck with the pilot. That person was supposed to be below. Sometimes they switch seats and that's likely why the crew members remains were found. I suppose this really means nothing but it's an interesting tidbit.

Again, just rumors.

[Moonman62]

The first point is that the RSB was not even effective until well after the Columbia disintegrated.

The other points are the the normal sequencing of the RCS thrusters. Is all that beyond you?

According to your own post, the yaw jets would have been active down to mach 3.5, well below the speed of the orbiter when it broke up. Can you please explain what you mean by RSB, and the normal sequencing of the RCS thrusters?

[snopercod]

RSB=Rudder/Speed Brake

The aft RCS jets maneuver the spacecraft until a dynamic pressure of 10 pounds per square foot is sensed; at this point, the orbiter's ailerons become effective, and the aft RCS roll jets are deactivated. At a dynamic pressure of 20 pounds per square foot, the orbiter's elevators become effective, and the aft RCS pitch jets are deactivated. The orbiter's speed brake is used below Mach 10 to induce a more positive downward elevator trim deflection. At Mach 3.5, the rudder become activated, and the aft RCS yaw jets are deactivated (approximately 45,000 feet).

Entry flight control is maintained with the aerojet DAP, which generates effector and RCS jet commands to control and stabilize the vehicle during its descent from orbit. The aerojet DAP is a three-axis rate command feedback control system that uses commands from guidance in automatic or from the flight crew's RHC in control stick steering. Depending on the type of command and the flight phase, these result in fire commands to the RCS or deflection commands to the aerosurfaces.

[XBob]

excellent - it appears that the wheel well is now the leading edge

[Moonman62]

The first point is that the RSB was not even effective until well after the Columbia disintegrated.

OK, I agree, they wouldn't have been active. But the yaw jets were active, which was my original point. NASA says they have pictures of the yaw jet on the rear starboard side firing over New Mexico, and they said there was a problem with the rate of compensation, which would make the nose point too far right or left. NASA didn't say which way.

Where do we disagree?

[finnman69]

OMG its a huge penis.

[snopercod]

Where do we disagree? If we disagreed on something, I've forgotten what it was.

[Vinnie_Vidi_Vici]

If you get it let me know! I'd like to try to enlarge and enhance the images after the cameraman zooms back, it was only a few seconds after that it broke apart