Foam supplier says Nightclub owner, Michael Derderian, bought non-fire retardant soundproofing

The Providence journal ^ | 02/28/2003 | By TOM MOONEY

[cinFLA]

Whether the soundproofing was safe and fire retardant, as required by law, is now at the center of the investigation into the blaze at West Warwick club last week, which has killed 97 and injured another 186 people.

Can't be. The club had passed receent fire inspections with flying colors.

[Japedo]

Inspector's actions are scrutinized


http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/058/metro/Inspector_s_actions_are_scrutinized+.shtml

< Snip >

Under Rhode Island regulations, ''when a doubt exists'' as to whether a material in a club is fire retardant, the inspector should hold a match under a sample of the material in question for 12 seconds to see if it ignites. The investigator said the panel of officials looking into the blaze believe that the test did not take place.

[cinFLA]

First maybe the fire inspector was told misleadingly it was non-flammable and second maybe the fire inspector didn't comprehend that a band would be stupid enough to set a big pyrotechnics show in such a small room.

Then he was an idiot.

[Xenalyte]

First maybe the fire inspector was told misleadingly it was non-flammable and second maybe the fire inspector didn't comprehend that a band would be stupid enough to set a big pyrotechnics show in such a small room.

Ahem.

Fire inspectors don't just take your word for it. The test they perform is to hold a match or a lighter flame to the insulation for 12 seconds. If it catches, it's a violation.

Doesn't matter what the fire inspector may or may not have been told. He had to perform a test, which he did, and the wall passed - leading one to suspect the foam wasn't in place when he inspected.

[Poohbah]

Or, he took some money under the table and SAID that he did all that.

[Japedo]

and the band for setting that fire trap on fire

If you are going to go this far, how about charging the other bands that used Pyros in the same building also for an attempted Fire? I'm sure none of them had the permits either, and I'm also sure that the Owners said Okay to them. 6 in the last two month and he didn't have a clue with any of them? I'm not buying it.

[Dane]

Under Rhode Island regulations, ''when a doubt exists'' as to whether a material in a club is fire retardant, the inspector should hold a match under a sample of the material in question for 12 seconds to see if it ignites. The investigator said the panel of officials looking into the blaze believe that the test did not take place.

I understand your whole point. Like I said the club owners probably said that the foam was not flammable and that they don't let pyro's in their club and left it at that.

But like I said before your point is moot since the club and band didn't file for a permit for pyro's, basically leaving the fire inspector, who would have to supervise and approve the pyro permit, off the hook.

[Xenalyte]

Can't rule that out, although since my uncle is a fire inspector and one of the most scrupulous and meticulous men I've ever met, I don't want to think so. :)

Then again, he's never worked in Rhode Island.

[Skip Ripley]

No offense, but did you get the license plate of the turnip truck you fell off of?

This is the American legal system, where do you get off appying logic to it?

[rabidralph]

delivery of 25 sheets of the charcoal foam

Made by Kingsford, no doubt.

[Japedo]

First of all I believe if there is a question then a match has to be held up to the wall and second like I said maybe the club owners told them the foam was not flammable.

LOL! Dane, you're crackin me up here! If club owners Lie? Isn't it the DUTY of the FIRE INSPECTORS to do their job and PASS said Buildings BASED ON INSPECTING, NOT "questioning"? REGARDLESS of what the "OWNERS SAY" This is the most ludicrous statement I have read today!

All your points are moot anyway because the club and band didn't ask for a permit for pyro's.

My points are not moot at all, what of the other 6 bands? did the Owners not have "any idea" then either?

The Owners put the cheapest stuff on the walls.. packing material, Lie to inspectors (if that's what you claim) Have other bands use pyros, Over crown their place of business while on film... and my point is moot? How do you figure?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

That's crazy. The manufacturer of the eggcrate foam bears no responsibility at all.

I am not disagreeing with you in the least. I just have prior knowledge of trial lawyers.

[Dane]

If you are going to go this far, how about charging the other bands that used Pyros in the same building also for an attempted Fire? I'm sure none of them had the permits either, and I'm also sure that the Owners said Okay to them. 6 in the last two month and he didn't have a clue with any of them? I'm not buying it

I don't know maybe there was divine intervention that nothing happened.

I have stated that the club owners should have the book thrown at them, for providing the fire trap and the band which has been accused of ignoring other club owners for using pyro's, being negligent in setting that fire trap on fire.

The basic point remains that the club and band didn't file for a permit.

[Nita Nuprez]

Egg crate foam was on the wall. It exists mainly because it is used to pack eggs. The poultry industry, and by extension, all people who eat meat are obviously at fault here.

I beg to differ. The Station would not have been engulfed in three minutes if it had not been a stick-frame, lumber structure. The timber industry is obviously the culprit.

[FreeTally]

No way. The manufacturer or seller is not liable. This does not fall under product liability.

Plenty of people have been sued because they used improper materials in the construction or repair of buildings or homes. The material maker or retailer has no control over how you use a product made for a specific purpose. It would be like suing Ford because the car I bought didn't operate as an airplane when I drove it off a cliff.

[Nita Nuprez]

No offense, but did you get the license plate of the turnip truck you fell off of?

SamAdams is a Yankee. They don't have turnip trucks.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

No way. The manufacturer or seller is not liable. This does not fall under product liability.

Neither does dumping hot McDonald's coffee in your own lap.

[DaughterofEve]

I think it is reprehensible that they are now bringing a neighbor into this story who had complained about the noise, as if that was the cause of their choosing to buy NON-flame retardant foam and hence the place burning down. It comes across as if they are even trying to cast some shadow of blame on that man.

[Dane]

LOL! Dane, you're crackin me up here! If club owners Lie? Isn't it the DUTY of the FIRE INSPECTORS to do their job and PASS said Buildings BASED ON INSPECTING, NOT "questioning"? REGARDLESS of what the "OWNERS SAY" This is the most ludicrous statement I have read today!

People lie all the time and it appears that the club owners lied. The club owners could have also said that they do not allow pyro's and they passed inspection, with the fire inspector saying to himself, only an idiot would light pyro's in a room like this, and it looks like the club owners and the band were idiots and their idiocy had tragic consequences.

The point stills stand that the fire inspector is not negligent since a permit for pyro's was not filed. The club owners and the band are.

[FreeTally]

If given permission by the club, the band would have reasonable expectations that the club was safe to use sparklers in, regardless of the fact neither party sought a permit. I still think the pyro guy was negligent for not considering the low ceiling, that is, if he wasn't lied to about the flammable nature of the insulation.

At worst, the band is liable for not getting a permit for an in-door fireworks display. This is probably a minor fine.

I would say that in a civil case, the band would be marginally culpable. I'd expect a breakdown something like - Owner 40%, Fire Inspector 40%, Band 20%. And that all depends on if the owners and fire inspector coluded to shirk fire code. If that's the case, I'd expect the jury to be so pissed that the band would get less culpability.