Foam supplier says Nightclub owner, Michael Derderian, bought non-fire retardant soundproofing

The Providence journal ^ | 02/28/2003 | By TOM MOONEY

[FreeTally]

and basically the fire inspector is left off the hook because of the negligence of the club owners and band's negligence in filing for a permit.

Dane, RI State law regarding the way places have to be inspected has been posted several times. The fire inspector is in no possible way "off the hook" if the stuff was there when he inspected it - and by all accounts, it seems that it was there.

A Fire Inspector doesn't "take someone's word for it". That's not their job. Inspecting does not equate to "Hey, you guys got any violations? No? Ok, here's your certificate".

[Uncle Hal]

My guess is that when all of this is sorted out, the lawyers will go after the deepest pockets. In this case it would seem to be the govermental agency in charge of inspecting the place. If the inspector missed the fact the tiles did not meet code then the city could have some liability. The owner of the club probably does not have enough liability insurance to cover all the claims. As for going to jail I do not know but I would guess the club owners are most vulnerable. The band probably has little or no money or insurance and probably will be glad to be rid of the problem and not charged.

[BJungNan]

This pretty much lays the blame on the club owner. Fireworks or no fireworks, the egg crate foam should have been fireretardant. There are plenty of sources of ignition back stage in a club.

And if the fire department had done an inspection and did not catch this, well, that is what they are paid for. and they too are to blame.

I'm not so sure I agree with you that the band should take the blame. If they asked and got permission, they have reasonable cause to rely that conditions for it are safe. Did they ask is the question.

Aside from all that, it is a tragedy. No amount of placing blame will undue the hurt.

[Japedo]

A Fire Inspector doesn't "take someone's word for it". That's not their job. Inspecting does not equate to "Hey, you guys got any violations? No? Ok, here's your certificate".

Maybe not Legally, but one wonders now if that isn't actually the case in a few places or at least with a few people?

[FreeTally]

I must have missed the "apply liberally to lap" instructions on the McDonald's coffee cup.

One's lap is irrelevant. It burns the hell out of your mouth and tounge.

Look, I didn't go for this for years until I learned about skin exposure to liquids at certain temperatures. I wish I had the link, or knew who did. I had the same opinion as most did which was something like, "dont sit it between your legs, hot things can burn you". It was way too hot - it was unconsumable.

[Dane]

Dane, RI State law regarding the way places have to be inspected has been posted several times.

And RI state and local Warwick law regarding that a permit is required for pyro's has also been posted many times.

It all comes down to the club and band not applying for a permit which absolves the negligence on the state's and municipality's part, IMO.

[NY.SS-Bar9]

Yep, I'd say there was about 500 sqft of gasoline on the walls.

[FreeTally]

Maybe not Legally, but one wonders now if that isn't actually the case in a few places or at least with a few people?

Yes, you must wonder.

I could see/understand an inspector letting things slide like some of the absurd OSHA requirements or ADA requirements in certain cases, but a fire inspector letting someone slide on having a flammable substance is just crazy. IF that's what happened, I'd like to see voluntary manslaughter charges brought against both the owners and inspector. That was a fire waiting to happen and even someone not trained as a fire inspector can see that.

[Japedo]

You may not like it but the band and club owners broke the law by not filing a permit for pyro's and basically the fire inspector is left off the hook because of the negligence of the club owners and band's negligence in filing for a permit.

YES I agree, I stated as much in my previous post. Not getting a permit. I do not know if that is the band's Responsibility, or the band managers, I will have to look into that part of it.

There is NO way the Inspectors are "off the hook" with highly flammable packaging material on the wall. What if one of the Amps sparked? Or a Cigarette hit the wall? there is no way the F.I. will get off this hook with missing this for two years? (that is assuming they hung it up shortly after they bought it in 2000)

[Xenalyte]

We did get a laugh that the loss of of a toe meant that he lost "consortium" as said in the suit, though.

Oh, my God, that's funny!

[E. Pluribus Unum]

It burns the hell out of your mouth and tounge.

Coffee that is not served that way is cold. You are supposed to sip it until it cools down.

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

They don't have turnip trucks.

That's right. Where SamAdams76 lives, they have cranberry trucks. (I can say that because I'm a Connecticut Yankee).

[FreeTally]

And RI state and local Warwick law regarding that a permit is required for pyro's has also been posted many times.

That has nothing to do with it. Only you wish to remove responsibility from the inspecting authority.

It all comes down to the club and band not applying for a permit which absolves the negligence on the state's and municipality's part, IMO.

This is getting humorous now. If the material was not even legal to be used in that fashion(which it appears not to be legal) and the fire inspector gave them a certificate of compliance anyway(which it also appears to be what happened), the City/State, or agents of them, will be criminally and civilly liable. There is no way around that. Actions not requiring a permit could have started the fire as well. That is what it comes down to.

[Dane]

Aside from all that, it is a tragedy. No amount of placing blame will undue the hurt.

Very true.

I just get a little miffed at the people who are trying to pin the blame the fire inspectors. It wasn't like the fire inspectors who put a gun up to the head of ths club owners for putting up the foam and to the band who set off the pyro technics.

JMO, the blame goes to the club owners and the band, whose negligence led to this tragedy.

[TaxRelief]

It seems that many more lives, than just the victim's, have been ruined by carelessness.

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

Was the kid using an upright vacuum?

[Howlin]

The timber industry is obviously the culprit.

Not much further you can go after that!

[Japedo]

wasn't like the fire inspectors who put a gun up to the head of ths club owners for putting up the foam and to the band who set off the pyro technics

Dane? you are getting "miffed" at people for pointing out some fishy business going on?
What is the entire point of having FIRE INSPECTIONS in the first place? NO, the Fire Inspectors didn't put a gun to their head. But.. They failed to do their job by seeing what was on the walls. Or at least knowing what it was and where they got it. THAT is what their Job requires to look for.

If an Amp sparked or something else and this fire was started another way it would have been the same result. We are not trying to "PIN" this on anyone, other then those who NEGLECTED to do their job in the first place. It's called ACCOUNTABILITY

[Mr. Bird]

I've read through the replies to your statements, and I tend to agree with those who believe the inspectors MAY shoulder some blame here. One thing that doesn't seem to be highlighted: that sucker went up fast. Setting aside the ignition source, lack of permits for pyro, number of people in the building, how does a building that goes up like a magnesium strip pass a fire inspection?