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A World Still Haunted by Ottoman Ghosts
nytimes.com ^ | March 9, 2003 | DAVID FROMKIN

Posted on 03/10/2003 2:29:25 PM PST by Destro

March 9, 2003

A World Still Haunted by Ottoman Ghosts

By DAVID FROMKIN

A ghost has been haunting the United States. It is the specter of the Ottoman Empire.

The ghost is with us today, in the antagonism between Turkey and the Kurds in any war over Iraq. It was with us two years ago, when Osama bin Laden, in a televised message, said the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were in retaliation for what the West had done 80 years earlier: divvy up the remains of the Ottoman Empire.

The ghost made its appearance when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, igniting the 1991 Persian Gulf war. Kuwait belonged to Iraq, Mr. Hussein argued, because modern Iraq was the lineal descendant and heir of Ottoman Basra. And Kuwait had come under the sovereignty of the province of Basra in the days of the Ottoman Empire.

The ghost was with us when Yugoslavia disintegrated into savage ethnic feuds. Many traced the disintegration to the Ottomans' efforts to set various Christian nationalities against one another. And conflicting claims — notably Serbia's to Kosovo — were based on the Ottoman invasion of the Balkans more than half a millennium ago.

Today, the more ambitious spirits in the Bush administration propose not merely to invade Iraq, but to use it as a base for transforming the Arab Middle East. Once before in modern times, Western countries — England and France — set about remaking these Ottoman lands. After emerging victorious from World War I, they redrew the map of the Middle East. Iraq was one of the artificial states to emerge.

A thousand years ago, Turkish warriors were the last of the nomad horsemen who streamed from Asia to conquer Europe. The riders were a mixed lot. Each band had a leader and a common language. Legend had it that one leader, Osman, led Turkish-speaking warriors, who eventually became the Ottomans.

The Ottomans went to Anatolia, essentially today's Turkey, on the frontier of the Byzantine Empire. Often they would cross the water to Europe, paid to fight for Christian rulers. Later, acting for themselves, they occupied the Balkans. In 1453, they captured Constantinople, now Istanbul, and with it the remains of the Byzantine Empire. At their zenith, the Ottoman armies fought their way to the gates of Vienna.

The Turks prospered on their captured wealth, so in the 19th century, when they stopped expanding, they started to retreat. The decline opened up enticing prospects for Europe's great powers, which expected to annex strategically important territories. The Ottoman Empire had settled the Balkans and the Middle East; these were the land bridges that joined Europe, Asia and Africa. But the European powers were surprised when the indigenous European subjects of the empire — including Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria — won independence for themselves.

After World War I, Britain and France, by defeating the Ottoman Empire, won control of the Arab lands, and with it, a tantalizing bauble: the likelihood that vast deposits of oil might be found there.

The Europeans and their American business partners hoped to establish stable and friendly regimes. After they redrew the borders in the early 1920's, Britain and France introduced a state system, and sought to supply political guidance too. But the system did not endure. Instead, the area grew more turbulent and unsettled.

Looking back, it is clear that many characteristics of the Middle East, some of which President Bush would like to change, were shaped by the five centuries of Ottoman rule. The United States may preach and practice secular politics, but it would have difficulty imposing secularism on the Middle East. It was taught to put religion first by its Turkish rulers, which defined the empire as a Muslim country, not a national one. The importance of religion in the Middle East is a legacy of the sultans who were also caliphs.

The empire also encouraged its perhaps two dozen ethnic and national groups to maintain their separate identities. It is no wonder that they are constantly feuding today — the Ottoman ghosts never far away.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: balkans; campaignfinance; middleeast; ottomanempire
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The true evil empire with the genocide of Christians as it's legacy.
1 posted on 03/10/2003 2:29:25 PM PST by Destro
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To: *balkans
bump
2 posted on 03/10/2003 2:30:17 PM PST by Destro (Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
This strikes me as a pretty simpleminded history of the Middle East by a typically undereducated reporter who has probably now read three or four books on the subject.

I suppose I shouldn't complain. At least this poor guy is trying.
3 posted on 03/10/2003 2:36:59 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Destro
But the European powers were surprised when the indigenous European subjects of the empire — including Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria — won independence for themselves.

Greece got its Independence through a brave fight against the Turks. No one can dispute their bravery. It was 1828 I think. Too lazy to check.

Buuut there was a Western naval fleet as well that went againts the Turkish fleet at the same time.

Bulgaria was more or less independent through a direct action by the Russians. Few days ago it was an annerversary of the Bulgarian inderpendence from the Turks and Vladimir Putin was in Bulgaria to remind them how they got their freedom.

Serbia. Well after the 1st failed uprising 1804? then the second in the 1820's the Serbs showed who is the fighting nation in the Balkans. Either they were too brave or too thick headed to fear anything.

Any way there was a western influence in all this as Greece got its borders south of Mount Olympus, Serbia north of Kosovo and Bulgaria east of Mount Pirin.

Macedonia was still under turkish rule .....

4 posted on 03/10/2003 2:47:06 PM PST by bobi
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To: Cicero
The Turks' Prayer against the Christians

Eternal God and creator of all things, and thou O Mahomet his sacred and divine prophet. We beseech thee let us not dread the Christians, who are so mean and silly to rely on a crucified god. By the power of thy right hand, so strengthen ours that we may surround this foolish people, on every side, and utterly destroy them. At length fulfill our prayers and put these miscreants into our hands, that we may establish thy throne for ever in Mecca, and sacrifice all those enemies of our most holy religion at thy tomb. Blow us with thy mighty breath like swarms of flies into their quarters, and let the eyes of these infidels bedazelled with the lustre of our moon. Consume them with thy fiery darts, and blind them with the dust which they themselves have raised. Destroy them all in thine anger. Break all their bones in pieces, and consume the flesh and blood of those who defile thy sacrifice, and hang the sacred light of circumcision on their cross. Wash them with showers of many waters, who are so stupid to worship gods they know not: and make their Christ a son to that God who ne're begot him. Hasten therefore their destruction we humbly entreat thee, and blot out their name and religion, which they glory so much in, from off the face of the earth, that they may be no more, who condemn and mock at thy law. Amen.

5 posted on 03/10/2003 2:48:15 PM PST by Destro (Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: 11B3; 2Trievers; alethia; AM2000; another cricket; ARCADIA; Archie Bunker on steroids; Aric2000; ...
The article is ok, but wear your hip boots.. Dastro is here..
6 posted on 03/10/2003 2:53:19 PM PST by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout,, the candyman!)
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Who would have thought a small piece of leather furniture would have caused such ire?
7 posted on 03/10/2003 2:54:04 PM PST by Yaron
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To: Yaron
LOL.

8 posted on 03/10/2003 2:55:54 PM PST by WOSG (Liberate Iraq!!)
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To: a_Turk
I recently read "What Went Wrong?" by Bernard Lewis. While ostensibly about contact between Islam and the West, it was largely about the Ottoman Empire, which of course was the primary contact point. Interesting book overall.

-Eric

9 posted on 03/10/2003 3:00:40 PM PST by E Rocc
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To: Destro
Could be I'm just tired.. but you changed a prayer.. then posted this dribble why??

Seriously, I'm not picking a fight with you.. I just don't understand why you posted this crap.
10 posted on 03/10/2003 3:00:42 PM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Destro
Ok.. so you didn't "change" anything on the link you provided. But it is still crap. IMHO
11 posted on 03/10/2003 3:03:08 PM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: E Rocc
I'll have to get the book.
12 posted on 03/10/2003 3:04:30 PM PST by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout,, the candyman!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
bump
13 posted on 03/10/2003 3:16:11 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: Destro
I just got finished reading an interesting book--a history of the Ottoman Empire's harems and the kidnapping and slave trade which supplied young beautiful women from all over Europe for the Sultans. These women were immediately made to convert to Islam, natch.
14 posted on 03/10/2003 3:17:58 PM PST by FirstTomato ("In the end,We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends" M L King)
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To: FirstTomato
Did you also read that the Ottomans bought their eunuchs from the Venetians, since it was against their religion to castrate? That was a surprise..
15 posted on 03/10/2003 3:23:19 PM PST by a_Turk (Bleet!)
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
I changed a prayer?
16 posted on 03/10/2003 3:24:15 PM PST by Destro (Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Ok.. so you didn't "change" anything on the link you provided. But it is still crap. IMHO

So your angry at me for posting it? or at the person who wrote the prayer or at the men who prayed with it?

17 posted on 03/10/2003 3:26:23 PM PST by Destro (Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
boing
18 posted on 03/10/2003 3:36:15 PM PST by longtermmemmory
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To: Destro
Destro, I have never heard of such an awful prayer in my life. How did Sobiesky get his hands on this supposed prayer anyway? Could you enlighten us about it's authenticity?
19 posted on 03/10/2003 3:38:39 PM PST by a_Turk (Bleet!)
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To: Cicero
"This strikes me as a pretty simpleminded history of the Middle East by a typically undereducated reporter who has probably now read three or four books on the subject."

Yeh, it looks like one of the books he read is "Balkan Ghosts", hence his title. "Balkan Ghosts: A Journey Through History" is an excellent read for those trying to understand politics and history and "ancient hatreds" in the Balkans and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. Another good book to read is "The Haunted Land: Facing Europe's Ghosts after Communism" by Tina Rosenberg.

20 posted on 03/10/2003 3:40:53 PM PST by RepublicanHippy
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