Expert: Concern over material, Clintonite "battle managers

Tuesday March 25, 2003 1:30 p.m. EST Expert: Concern Over Materiel, Clintonite 'Battle Managers'

Aside from the grousing coming out of some media outlets, and other critics, that we haven’t won the war in Iraq already, there is genuine concern among military analysts that the battles around Baghdad will be more than tough, and some might actually be lost.

The concern is not over the prowess nor the will of our amazing troops, but the lack of enough sound planning and armored equipment that seems to be evidencing itself.

For example, military analyst and former Green Beret Lonnie Shoultz summed up those fears to NewsMax this way:

”The ‘small detail’ that Clinton’s ‘battle managers’ left out of their plans was overlooking the fact the Turkey’s internal politics might not allow ... dispersal of armored American troops through that country until it’s internal political changes were complete. "The 4th Infantry Division is our most lethal, mobile and digitized armored division. While it’s 14,000 pieces of equipment have been bobbing around on the ocean on over 30 ships waiting to land in Turkey, 20,000 members of the division are securing the equipment aboard the ships and another 13,000 members of the division have been living out of their duffle bags at Ft. Hood waiting to leave by air to join their equipment.

"Once the Army’s planners ‘abandoned their plans’ to land the 4th Infantry through Turkey, they ordered the 30+ ships carrying it’s [the 4th Infantry Division’s] equipment to turn around, pass through the Suez Canal and land the equipment at either Kuwait or the Iraqi port our units captured over the weekend.

"The most obvious cost of this enormous mistake is that the 3rd Infantry Division is now only 100 miles south of Baghdad and the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) that has no armor is trailing it as some kind of reserve force. When the 3rd Infantry Division and the light infantry 101st Airborne Division attack the Republican Guards, our best armored division, the digitized 4th Infantry Division, will still have its equipment at sea and its personnel in the air flying to the theatre to meet their equipment still embarked aboard ships.

"We only have two Army divisions on the ground in Iraq to oppose the entire Republican Guard and the Special Republican Guard and one of them has no armor.”

Mr. Shoultz continued: "The Russian T-62 and T-72 [tanks] of the Iraqi military cannot stand toe to toe with our Abrams M1A2 main battle tanks but they can take us from the side. A tank battle is like an aerial dogfight where all of the units are mixed together and you shoot at whatever is in front of you. If our tanks can’t stop the Republican Guard units on their first pass, it allows the Iraqis to get to the Bradleys. They have teeth also with their 25mm chain guns, but nothing to match the 120mm main guns on the tanks. But any Iraqi tank that slips through both battle lines gets into the truckloads of troops and fuel behind them … that could be a slaughter.”

He said if our Abrams tanks "are stopped, they are dead. There is another Republican Guard unit 30 miles from the Medina Division. Once the battle begins, the next unit will close on the first and mass their fire. If the Russian shells that were sold to Iraq punch holes in the Abrams, we’re done. The depleted uranium in our armored units would stop anything the Iraqis had before, but the Russians reportedly sold them a more lethal round for their tanks.

"That could be the undoing of the 3rd Infantry Division. If the 3rd can’t stop them, the Marines and Brits don’t have a chance. The Marines only have 188 M1A1 Abrams (not upgraded) and the Brits use the Challenger II tank that has sort of brittle armor.”

So how did it happen that we went to war without our best armor, and without all of our troops in place?

Shoultz said: "We have many assets and I’d rather be lucky than good but any Middle Eastern war is an armored war. That should have been the backbone of any plan for this campaign. We saw yesterday that the Apache anti-tank helicopters can get in their licks but they are vulnerable to everything from a soldier getting in a lucky shot to anti-aircraft artillery.

"General Franks was forced to attack Iraq without two armored divisions that he had requested and that had been assigned to the war in Iraq. This is Clinton’s "COO” military at its finest. Its planners have MBAs from the finest schools all paid for by the U.S. military but they have a minimal amount of time commanding troops. So, the entire Clinton ‘experiment with the military’ has left our Army scattered around the world from Ft. Hood, Texas to the battle area in Iraq.

"I’ve tried to emphasize how poor the planning function at the Pentagon was left by Secretary of Defense Cohen who believed, as did his bosses, Bill and Hillary Clinton, that all military planners needed to be "battle mangers” with advanced business degrees instead of field commanders with dirt on their hands. The Bush team has not had time since it was confirmed by the Senate to make the necessary changes at the Pentagon due to 9/11 occurring eight months after Bush and his appointees took over.

"This disconnect with reality would not have occurred if we had proven troop commanders doing the planning for mobilizations. Veteran troop handlers and war fighters know what they need to fight and they would not take ANY chances that ALL of it would not on hand when battle is joined. This is a great argument for requiring the planners to command the first waves of the assault troops. That would make them more careful in their planning.

"The 101st Airborne has zero armored units. They do have over 75 ‘Apache’ Longbows and they should give a good account of themselves but I don’t see how we can separate the ‘Clinton factor’ out of this planning SNAFU. If we had soldiers instead of ‘battle managers’ doing the planning, we would be advancing on Baghdad with three Army armored columns (1st Cav, 3rd Infantry and the 4th Infantry divisions) and the armored column in the east consisting of the Marines and the Brits.

That would allow Franks to use the 101st for what it is – a quick, mobile, lethal strike force that can use its 270 helicopters to place it’s three Brigades all over the battlefield to take out specific targets that may be holding up or distracting the armored columns in their march to Baghdad FROM FOUR SIDES. What we’ve got now is best described as a military abortion on worldwide television.”

The two factors not included in this analysis are our superior air power, and the possible uprising of the people of Iraq against Saddam Hussein.

Hopefully, those two factors, along with some luck and the arrival of more of our brave boys, will give the coalition victory, and give Iraq back to its people.

Even if Rumsfeld was too stupid to ask Powell what he thought about an early launch before the Turkey situation was straightened out... you can bet Cheney was smart enough to ask both Powell and Schwartzkopf if we had enough firepower in country to prevent unnecessary losses. You can't blame everything on Clinton. Nice try though!

This definetely is something to think about.

It would be if this guy knew what he was talking about. My cousin is a brigade commander in the 4ID. Without sinking any ships but still knowing what he told my uncle yesterday, I asked him what I could tell people about this exact issue. He said tell them not to worry it is completly under control. He pointed out that several large, well equiped units deployed are not getting mention by the press because some are not embedded and some others aren't releasing info. He said they expected this or worse as far as resistance and casualties. He also said it may take a while....or more like "This is just the beginning of this [war]."

Another thing this guy isn't even thinking about is airpower. In fact, if our armor had any problem they could just sit back and wait for the air guys to wipe out every single Iraqi tank. According to SECDEF, air missions for yesterday were 50% against Republican Guard posistions and tanks. That is a large number of smoking holes in the ground where tanks used to be. They also may have gotten better tanks and bullets, but they never upgraded their tank drivers.

We can live without the additional tanks, IMHO, if we are going to hit the Republican guard outside of Baghdad. If we have to chase them into town WE ARE SCREWWED !

Please remember two things ;

1. The range of enemy artillery is about 13 miles, and we are not nearly that close yet. We can hit them with our rocket assisted artillery rounds (RAP) which have a range of 18 miles. I think that we will stay 14-17 miles from their arty and pound them for a while before we do anything.

2. The Army 4th Heavy Mech Division is only a week or so away. I have read that they are off loading at Saudi Red sea ports as we speak.

Also if you hadn't noticed, God is pounding them with wind, rain, thunder and lightning like Iraq has not seen in 20 years or more. This will greatly mask our positions, for a week or so until 4th mech shows up. Our God IS God !

Not to detract from the author's Clinton Bashing (which I wholeheartedly support), but there are a couple of comments that I have to question. First, from everything I've heard, nothing short of depleted uranium rounds and advanced anti-tank missiles will penetrate an M1A2 armor - even from the the side. I highly doubt that the Iraqi's have any DU munitions, although there are reports of Russian anti-tank missiles being smuggled in which might cause some problems. Also, I don't buy the comment about the 'brittle' Challenger 2 armor - the Challenger uses the same Chobham armor as the Abrams (British invention). Iraq's old T-72s have ZERO chance of standing up to our armor. Sounds like more doom and gloom from the hand-wringers to me.

Thanks for the response, Sentinel. :)

It's sad (but not to me) that this group of evildoers over there believes the storm is evidence that God is on their side.

IMHO, I read it as hell opening up and rolling out the red carpet, as our freedom-fighting troops gain upon Baghdad. However, a miscalculation by the devil...The Almighty will not let evil prevail this time, and the Republican Guard is about to learn this for the first and last time. God is using this unbelievable storm to His advantage, as evidenced by yesterday's tally.

Thanks for the info on the 4th ID, and for pointing out our artillery range capability vs. theirs.

My heart just goes out to all of our fellow Americans up in the front. And of course our troops are ready for this (no thanks to the last prez). It's just that cutting corners right now places more weight upon these folks, and IMHO, that is wrong. I mean, they've hardly slept for a week now. They've been fighting and in a hyper-alert state, have been practically eating the elements...Anyway...we shouldn't look back.

I guess I just feel for these guys (as we all do), but I think that a miscalculation at the Pentagon level ought not be left on the shoulders of those on the front lines. I mean, cripes, how much should they have to bear?

Ayway, thanks again for the info. I feel a lot better knowing relief and decisiveness are heading their way.

Hang in their guys!!! God is right there with you, and He is blessing you. And we are praying each and every minute for you!! I hope you can feel the U.S.A.'s ***love and support*** as you smear the evil cesspool down to hell where it belongs!!!

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