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How Iraq Confrontation Divided Western Alliance- France and Germany Strive To Check American Might
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ^ | March 27, 2003 | MARC CHAMPION, CHARLES FLEMING, IAN JOHNSON and CARLA ANNE ROBBINS

Posted on 03/27/2003 7:04:39 AM PST by pittsburgh gop guy

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:48:31 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Early on Jan. 22, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sat down for 20 minutes with Jacques Chirac in the French president's gilded office overlooking the gardens of the Elysée Palace.

As aides prepared for a glittering day of banquets and meetings to celebrate 40 years of Franco-German cooperation, the two leaders huddled after breakfast to discuss something more urgent: Iraq. For months, Mr. Schroeder had been a lone voice among European leaders saying that the U.S. had no cause to attack Saddam Hussein. His stand had helped him win a narrow victory in national elections four months earlier, but it also left him diplomatically isolated. Now, he was about to get some badly needed help.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: france; germany; hegemony; wallstjournal; whyfrancesucks; whygermanysucks; wsj
Great article detailing how France & Germany suck. ANd how they are envious of the U.S.'s hegemony in the world today.
1 posted on 03/27/2003 7:04:39 AM PST by pittsburgh gop guy
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
That really is a great article. It's purely factual, without much bias at all. A nice bit of journalism.
2 posted on 03/27/2003 7:10:48 AM PST by XJarhead
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
There's no question ENVY is at the center of it. The US works harder, produces more and is more free than either of these socialist states and they just can't stand it.
3 posted on 03/27/2003 7:12:10 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: pittsburgh gop guy; MLedeen; Poohbah; dighton; nopardons; Chancellor Palpatine; section9; Dog; ...
A note on the Axis of Weasels. Michael Ledeen's earlier National Review piece seems to be on target. There is an effort by the Axis of Weasels to turn the EU into a counterweight. The best counter-move to this effort by France and Germany, IMHO, is to align with Tony Blair and Vladimir Putin and the rest of New Europe, and work to ensure regime change occurs in Germany, thereby isolating the French.
4 posted on 03/27/2003 7:26:33 AM PST by hchutch ("But tonight we get EVEN!" - Ice-T)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
I tend to disagree. This article is factual, but it is shot through with negativity. I would guess it is the work of the left-wingers on the WSJ news staff, rather than the more conservative editorial page staff.

Pretty typical is the implication that the US made a bad mistake in not accepting the offer of NATO help. But, as the article itself admits, that turned out to be a French Trojan horse. NATO would have been--and proved to be--no more use than the UN, because the French intended from the beginning to veto any initiatives that might be taken.

Although the article doesn't use the infamous word "unilateral," it does strongly imply that the US screwed up and isolated itself. That simply isn't true. We made every diplomatic effort to bring about a consensus. Other than the central axis of Germany, France, and Belgium, and the mischief-makers in Russia and China, and the rogue states, most of the world is on our side. Muslims are not very happy, but that can't be helped, obviously.

The article says, "By the end of that day, the West was headed for a diplomatic train wreck on a scale not seen since World War II." That statement is accurate. And the perpetrator of the disaster was Jacque Chirac, although the writers do their very best to obscure that central fact.
5 posted on 03/27/2003 7:35:47 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
Here's what I sent puddin-head last Saturday via USPS. Sent it via mail using 3 U.S. Flag stamps. Bastards!

French President Jacques Chirac
Monsieur Le President de la Republique
Palais de l'Elysee
55, rue du Faubourg Saint-Honore
75008 Paris
FRANCE

Dear President Chirac,

Just a quick note to ensure you understand millions of Americans will never forget you and your country’s cowardice.

We have somewhat considered you an ally and a friend. That perception has recently shifted for all times. And trust me, it is permanent.

I and millions of other Americans are now encouraging our elected officials, President Bush’s administration and business leaders to change their thinking about France. You will see in the future a new punitive approach towards our relationship with your country.

Don’t expect a public announcement regarding this shift. But it will happen.

With friends like France who needs enemies. We are quickly discovering who our real friends are. It is not you or your country. I imagine a few years down the road there will be hell to pay for your position in the history books and your political party’s future.

We’re tired of your slander and your weak knees. Thanks for all your help in the United Nations.

Yours truly,
6 posted on 03/27/2003 7:44:09 AM PST by schaketo
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To: JohnHuang2
Can you give this a mega-ping?
7 posted on 03/27/2003 7:44:18 AM PST by hchutch ("But tonight we get EVEN!" - Ice-T)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
BUMP THIS ARTICLE, WOW! this is very well written and puts the diplomatic war in perspective.

This is a must read for everyone following the war because it defines the post war landscape of the Diplomatic War after the peace.

8 posted on 03/27/2003 7:48:35 AM PST by longtermmemmory
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To: hchutch; xm177e2; mercy; Wait4Truth; hole_n_one; GretchenEE; Clinton's a rapist; buffyt; ...

9 posted on 03/27/2003 7:54:05 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
I think the root of Schroeder's actions can be traced back to last November when he prevailed in the lawsuit about whether or not he dyes his hair. Flush with confidence from that hard fought victory, he set a course for even more inane nonsense and frivolity.

Dye Another Day

10 posted on 03/27/2003 7:54:56 AM PST by GalaxieFiveHundred
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To: hchutch; Poohbah
I just started reading a new book by the title "Crush Depth". It is set about 10 years from now. According to the prologue, a military coup occurs in Germany and a Hohenzollern descendant is placed upon a restored throne as a figurehead (while the country is run by an aggressive military), and it links up withh an extremist Boer group which violently seizes control of South Africa. The new allince quickly makes its intention of world domination know.

Before any shots are even fired, France surrenders.

I was laughing so hard that I couldn't read much past that, and almost didn't want to - because it was such a perfect moment. I really hope the rest of it doesn't suck.

11 posted on 03/27/2003 8:00:10 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Paleocons, the French and the UN - Excusing corrupt power mad dictators for decades)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
The new allince quickly makes its intention of world domination know=The new alliance quickly makes its intention of world domination known.

I really should proofread for typos before posting.

12 posted on 03/27/2003 8:01:09 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Paleocons, the French and the UN - Excusing corrupt power mad dictators for decades)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
Yeah, its' Wolfowitz's fault because he ignored Euro offers of aid.

It's Rumsfeld's fault for dissing Old Europe.

It's Bush's fault for being a Texas yokel who has no powers of persuasion.

Suure.

If anyone believes that, take a look at how Chirac and Schroeder and their assorted continental minions are treating Tony Blair, a gifted public speaker in a long line of eloquent British prime ministers, a man with a lifelong commitment towards closer integration of the UK into Europe, committed to ditching the pound, abasing himself for the purpose of bridging the trans-Atlantic gap.

How do they treat Mr. Blair, who tired himself out in his effort to explain the new world reality to the world and especially Europe?

For his efforts, Chirac and Schroeder treated him lower than the dirt on their shoes.

So, it really doesn't matter what missteps the U.S. administration may have made. The outcome would have been the same regardless.
13 posted on 03/27/2003 8:04:15 AM PST by tictoc
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Actually, it's the third book in the series. And yes, it does suck. Big time. Very early on, the Germans do something that would have resulted in a US strategic laydown on Germany.
14 posted on 03/27/2003 8:13:28 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Cicero; tictoc
I don't read the article as being critical of the U.S. or wolfy:

"The issue of whether the West would attack terrorism under NATO's flag was largely symbolic. The U.S. in any case would have provided most of the manpower and money. But France, Germany and other European countries felt spurned and bewildered by Washington's refusal to take them up on their offer.

Mr. Wolfowitz says any officials who felt that way misread his position. At the time, he adds, the U.S. "didn't have any notion what kind of military forces we needed" for a possible war in Afghanistan, "nor any notion that NATO as an alliance was prepared to commit to something as ambitious as Afghanistan." Mr. Wolfowitz also says that last December, he presented to NATO a detailed proposal for how it could help with a possible war against Iraq. "But what we feared in September '01 is precisely what happened: The French blocked collective action."

Once again: The French blocked collective action
15 posted on 03/27/2003 8:15:07 AM PST by pittsburgh gop guy (now serving eastern Pennsylvania and the Lehigh Valley.......)
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To: Poohbah
Damn. Damn, damn, damn.

Sometimes that genre can turn bad on you, but sometimes, you can get pleasantly surprised.

The Heritage Trilogy is good - it has a US vs UN war set 40 years from now in the first two books (the third book is set 60 years off). It features Marines on Mars, Marines on the Moon, finds of alien technology, and the mendacity of a French dominated UN.

16 posted on 03/27/2003 8:21:12 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Paleocons, the French and the UN - Excusing corrupt power mad dictators for decades)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
BIG HUGE BUMP
17 posted on 03/27/2003 8:22:04 AM PST by madison46
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To: tictoc
What is REALY funny? France and Germany do not even have the largly symbolic rotaiting EU presidency. That is currently held by Greece. Greece is worried about the 2004 olympic games and has been largly fence sitting the diplomatic war. (they have quietly given overflight and staging rights to the US military) The point is that the lead voice of the EU has been drowned out by French self interest.

France really views the other european nations as France's stable of b**ches.
18 posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:06 AM PST by longtermmemmory
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Yes, I really liked the Heritage trilogy.

For mindless crap, I recommend Matt Reilly's novels. Ice Station and Area 7 star a Marine Force Recon unit. It's BS all the way through--no women in Farce Recon, and they don't have that kind of equipment--but they have loads of action, conspiracies galore, and , and Reilly (an Australian) captures the Marine Corps ethos--improvise, adapt, and overcome--better than anyone else.

19 posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:14 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
How far did you get on Crush Depth?
20 posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:38 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Poohbah
The confetti cruise missile flying at NYC. Seemed like a waste - and I got the impression that there weren't many left in the German inventory.

I felt like I was walking midway into a plotline without a summary heads up - something WEB Griffin considers and addresses pretty well when putting together a volume for Brotherhood of War and The Corps.

21 posted on 03/27/2003 8:32:01 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Paleocons, the French and the UN - Excusing corrupt power mad dictators for decades)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
The confetti cruise missile flying at NYC. Seemed like a waste - and I got the impression that there weren't many left in the German inventory.

THAT was the action that would trigger a strategic laydown. Missiles inbound to NYC would result in the Prez getting stuffed onto the Doomsday Bird--he'd probably give the release codes while still aboard Marine One, and all of Germany would be a radioactive cinder in less than 30 minutes or STRATCOM would deduct $4 off the price of nuking South Africa.

22 posted on 03/27/2003 8:35:10 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
A good read. Fruck Fance AND Germany.
23 posted on 03/27/2003 8:37:52 AM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Explorer89
ping
24 posted on 03/27/2003 8:45:41 AM PST by MrConfettiMan
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To: JohnHuang2
BUMP!

Thanks, King, great read!

25 posted on 03/27/2003 8:55:10 AM PST by ST.LOUIE1
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
Cutting off all aid and trade relations with France, Germany, and Russia is in order. Let's see how long their intransigence lasts then. Some nations just can't come to grips with the fact that they're America's b/tch.
26 posted on 03/27/2003 8:59:50 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
putting in question the alliances and institutions that have provided structure to the world since 1945.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Germany" as we currently know it has only been around for a decade or so, right?

Thanks to us - "TEAR DOWN THAT WALL", lest they forget...

27 posted on 03/27/2003 9:10:40 AM PST by Nexus
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To: JohnHuang2
Thanks for the heads up!
28 posted on 03/27/2003 9:21:50 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
I don't read the article as being critical of the U.S. or wolfy:

You're right, it isn't. Instead, it's a "He Said, She Said" kind of report. That's alright, the WSJ wants to show its journalistic independence.

I think that mistakes have been made on the U.S. side. Most importantly, I suspect that the Administration did not sufficiently offer to take French and Russian commercial interests (i.e., pending oil exploration contracts) into account.

This war, after all, happens to be also about oil -- but on all sides including the French and Russians.

However, it doesn't change the fact that Chirac is bidding to become the world's principal opponent of the U.S., and expects to be rewarded handsomely with Arab oil money, while the stupid f---ing clueless Germans are along for the ride.

I'm sorry. I am so upset right now, I feel ready to go to the Elysée palace, wait for ChiraQ to step out, and punch him into the nose, HARD.

(Rest of message self-censored.)

29 posted on 03/27/2003 9:24:52 AM PST by tictoc
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
>>, pitting Washington against a monumental alignment of world opinion<<

This formulation reveals one of the many fatal defects in the UN structure.

There is no such thing as "world opinion" - or at least, if it exists, it is not measurable in any way that our Constitution or our laws would recognize as valid.The "opinion" of Zimbabwe, or Chad, or Iraq, are the opinions of thieves, murderers, and sociopaths, with no right to rule much less to express their personal hallucinations as representative opinions.

The use of voting in the UN magnifies this flaw. When Guinea votes in the Security Council, we take it "as if" people in some part of the world were weighing in on the issue at hand, which is almost never true.

30 posted on 03/27/2003 9:25:16 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: hchutch
work to ensure regime change occurs in Germany

Schroeder seems to be doing his darnedest to sink his own government by his uncanny skill of always making the wrong decision in both economic and foreign policy.

It's an open question how helpful a CDU government would be. Certainly the anti-American rhetoric would stop. At one time they seemed to want to challenge the French for European leadership rather than follow the French, their historical policy. Germany has always sought leadership in Eastern Europe, and so may reflect their support for "new" Europe. I doubt a new government would be as supportive as the British, in any case.

31 posted on 03/27/2003 9:27:04 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Cicero
I have a hunch that Russia is behind the French and German No vote. There was a lot of money coming out of Iraq for these countries and they were afraid that we would close the gold pot.

This morning Blair was moaning that we need the UN in the UN to participate in the resurrection of a free Iraq! He is pulling the UN into the picture so the socialist Parliment doesn't burn him at the stake.

Politics has a great deal to do with this mess. I still haven't determined exactly why we are in Iraq. Two choices, money and money.

32 posted on 03/27/2003 9:38:32 AM PST by B4Ranch (Keep America safe! Thank the troops for our freedom.)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
Diplomats have caused more problems than they have ever solved.

Thank God President Bush has had his reined in throughout this debacle. State Department pantywaist pukes, left to their own devices, would have surrendered to France.
33 posted on 03/27/2003 10:01:37 AM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: hchutch
There is an effort by the Axis of Weasels to turn the EU into a counterweight.

Ofcourse. The Euro currency is proof of this. The exchange rate with the USD still favors the EURO by about 10 cents--and the EURO was designed (and is propped up) to compete directly with the Dollar. It is also over-inflated (not just my opinion, but a belief held now by the many of the financially savvy in Frankfurt and Berlin).

This is a critical point in US history. I pray GW Bush does not melt--but stays firm. If Bush stands his ground, he will take the US to a new plane of strength. If he does not, Europe will sense fear and undermine America even more.

34 posted on 03/27/2003 10:17:27 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: hchutch; Cicero
Cicero you're right. This article sucks. It smacks of reading like a French talking points roadmap.

Iraq entered the picture several months later, in January 2002

BS. Bush Admin started talking about Saddam within the first week after 9/11.

IMO the article fails in three regards: one, it doesn't take into account France's monetary interests and power in Iraq, it's long relationship. Two, France opposed any deadline for enforcement ever. The issue of "inspectors" is really a non-starter. Threee, it fails to address the "counterbalance" argument, what did France and Germany intend to do with their strategy in Europe, and how they would position themselves as masters therein.

35 posted on 03/27/2003 10:51:17 AM PST by Shermy
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To: B4Ranch
How will we get the 20 billion food money in the UN coffers? There has to be UN involvement in "some" form. NOT in charge, but as just another agency UNDER US supervision.

We must make sure Iraqi oil is priced in US Dollars.
36 posted on 03/27/2003 11:24:48 AM PST by longtermmemmory
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To: longtermmemmory
We must make sure Iraqi oil is priced in US Dollars.

Agreed

I don't want the UN to exist anywhere in our political system. We can hire a PRIVATE corporation to do what UNICEF does.

37 posted on 03/27/2003 1:37:10 PM PST by B4Ranch (Keep America safe! Thank the troops for our freedom.)
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