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Berkeley marina case tests Scouts' anti-gay stance
Sacramento Bee ^ | March 27, 2003 | Claire Cooper

Posted on 03/27/2003 2:29:48 PM PST by laureldrive

Edited on 04/12/2004 5:50:03 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

SAN FRANCISCO -- The California Supreme Court announced Wednesday it will step into a case that's being viewed as the next major legal test of the Boy Scouts' stand against homosexuality. By a bare majority, the justices said they'll review lower court decisions that let Berkeley rescind half-century-old free-berthing privileges at the city marina to the local Sea Scouts chapter. The city acted in 1997, after the chapter refused to renounce the anti-gay position of its parent Boy Scouts.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: California
KEYWORDS: bsa; bsalist; homosexualagenda; scouts
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1 posted on 03/27/2003 2:29:49 PM PST by laureldrive
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To: laureldrive
Kalifornia Supreme Court?

BWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA!

What a joke

2 posted on 03/27/2003 2:33:58 PM PST by lormand
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To: laureldrive
Well, it is Berkely. It's not like it's part of the U.S.A.
3 posted on 03/27/2003 2:36:47 PM PST by Mark (Treason doeth never prosper, for if it prosper, NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON.)
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To: laureldrive
There are two essential points that appear (slightly) in this article that are essential to the case. First, the US Supreme Court decision in favor of the Boy Scouts of America held that the Scouts have a FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT to determine the nature of their adult leaders. So, the marina authority is demanding that the Scouts give up their constitutional rights.

Second, and this may be the Cailfornia Supreme Court's easy way to end the case, the Sea Scouts have no policy in the area of homosexual adult leaders. The marina is demanding that the Sea Scouts denounce the policy of the Boy Scouts. I'm willing to bet the Cal. SC will take the cheap way out, and use this as the basis of its ruling in favor of the Sea Scouts.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, not yet up on UPI, and FR, "The A-MAA-zing War Wizard"

Latest book(let), "to Restore Trust in America."

4 posted on 03/27/2003 2:36:58 PM PST by Congressman Billybob ("Saddam has left the building. Heck, the building left the building.")
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To: laureldrive
Man, those homosexuals certainly are intolerant of straight folk. Why don't they just embrace our diversity and respect the difference?
5 posted on 03/27/2003 2:48:47 PM PST by annyokie (provacative yet educational reading alert)
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To: Congressman Billybob
bump for rumored Supreme Court nominee Janice Brown.
6 posted on 03/27/2003 2:56:37 PM PST by JohnnyZ (Willing to consider an Iraqi bride)
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To: laureldrive
San Francisco--Queer Capital of the World

Good grief!
7 posted on 03/27/2003 3:00:41 PM PST by lilylangtree
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To: *bsa_list
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
8 posted on 03/27/2003 3:04:16 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: laureldrive
If the Scouts have been singled out for this privilege, then it is within the rights of the City to rescind the privilege. But if other organizations are granted free berthing, then the Scouts have an equal claim. Best of all would be if some generous donor agreed to pay the $500 a month rent, or give the Scouts his own berth to use, free of charge.
10 posted on 03/27/2003 3:49:34 PM PST by IronJack
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To: madg
VIRTUALLY everyone else pays

That's the point, isn't it - - - other nonprofits aren't charged this fee; the sea scouts ARE charged the fee - simply because of their ties to the Boy Scouts, ie their freedom of association. They're being discriminated against because of their associations - and that's not constitutionally allowed.

11 posted on 03/27/2003 4:02:00 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: madg
Thus far, two courts have not seen it that way

Well that settles it, doesn't it?

14 posted on 03/27/2003 4:41:03 PM PST by churchillbuff
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Mark
I agree with you.
16 posted on 03/27/2003 6:54:41 PM PST by freekitty
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To: madg
To qualify for a fee waiver, an organization must be non-profit and must make an anti-discrimination pledge. Satisfy those fair and lawful requirements and you'll get a waiver. Anyone that does not satisfy those requirement does not get a waiver. This is real simple stuff.

If it were simple the California Supremes wouldn't have to intervene.

The issue is whether Berkely can discriminate against a right the US Supremes have said the BSA possesses.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

17 posted on 03/27/2003 7:29:09 PM PST by JCG
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To: Congressman Billybob
I don't think the marina is demanding the Scouts give up their constitutional rights. They're just saying they won't give charity to an agency which discriminates. The scouts are perfectly welcome to leave their boat in the marina, they just have to pay to do so. It seems that's what they're doing currently.
18 posted on 03/27/2003 7:35:28 PM PST by halfdome
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To: madg
Berkeley (et al) insists upon NON-discrimination in its self-allocation of taxpayer funds. That's the part where the Sea Scouts ran into a problem...

I understand. It's a clash of rights. The scouts have a court-upheld right to discriminate against homos. Berkeley believes it has the right to discriminate against the -- again, court-upheld -- right of the scouts. It will need to be settled by The SCOTUS.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

21 posted on 03/27/2003 8:01:47 PM PST by JCG
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: halfdome
"They're just saying they won't give charity to an agency which discriminates"

Taking a stand that something is morally wrong is not discrimination. The United States Supreme court has already ruled that the Boy Scouts have the right to take that stand. If Berkley gives free berths to other non-profits, they're going to have to give one to the scouts. Quit defending the queers.
23 posted on 03/27/2003 8:44:30 PM PST by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: SendShaqtoIraq
I thought that a person couldn't be fired from their job if they were gay, or refused to rent an apartment if they were gay. In other words, if gays aren't treated equally it is discrimination, according to the law. I don't know how much the law has to do with morals, as abortion is legal.
24 posted on 03/27/2003 9:00:12 PM PST by halfdome
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To: madg
..to qualify for a fee waiver, an organization must be non-profit and must make an anti-discrimination pledge...

Come off it, Madg.

We all know who's being discriminated against, here. It's Berkeley Council, for crying out loud.

25 posted on 03/28/2003 1:16:10 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: madg
Ummm... it's a clash of "POLICIES," not necessarily "rights."

Wrong. The SCOTUS validated a right that the BSA possesses, namely, the right to discriminate against homosexuals. Berkeley's "right" -- if there is one -- remains to be validated.

Your agenda notwithstanding, if you can't tell difference between rights and policies, you have no business trying to debate here on FR.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

26 posted on 03/28/2003 8:00:09 AM PST by JCG
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To: churchillbuff
[O]ther nonprofits aren't charged this fee; the sea scouts ARE charged the fee . . .

The remedy is simple, then: require ALL nonprofits to pay.

But madg cannot view the issue squarely and fairly. It doesn't fit his pro-sodomy worldview.

27 posted on 03/28/2003 8:07:14 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: laureldrive
One of the other things not often noted in this controversy is that the Scouts provided some 80,000 tons of rocks to help originally construct the marina, and that's when they were given the free berthing.

Of course it was necessary to renege on the deal once it became necessary for the Berkeley City Council to force acceptance of homosexuality.

29 posted on 03/28/2003 8:25:42 AM PST by jimt (Acceptance is EARNED.)
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To: madg
They are now “just another” private exclusive group, similar to the KKK

And madg's mask slips showing the sneering marxist beneath.

30 posted on 03/28/2003 8:26:58 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: madg
I think it’s sad and I think they made a mistake. The BSA is a fine organization

Spare us the phony condescending sanctimony. You have a singularly foul agenda, and that is to destroy this "fine organization" as it exists.

31 posted on 03/28/2003 8:29:22 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: madg
What’s your point? You think that SCOTUS ruling entitles the BSA to freebies at taxpayer expense?

As I mentioned it is a clash of rights; validated and presumed. The BSA is entitled to the "freebies" if other similar organizations are getting them. Otherwise, they are being discriminated against.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

32 posted on 03/28/2003 8:31:36 AM PST by JCG
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: JCG
The BSA is entitled to the "freebies" if other similar organizations are getting them. Otherwise, they are being discriminated against.

Especially if BSA-donated labor and organizational skills helped to create the marina in the first place. The other nonprofits are the true freeloaders in that case.

But I suspect madg is all for freeloading. It is the fact that some nonprofit organizations refuse to embrace and celebrate homosexuality that bothers him.

34 posted on 03/28/2003 8:36:46 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: madg
If they want to go the extra step and get the PRIVILEGE of a fee waiver, they have to satisfy the SAME requirements as the others.

i.e., they have to embrace and celebrate homosexuality among their membership including their leaders.

Spit it out, son. Quit playing Clinton word-games.

36 posted on 03/28/2003 8:39:05 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: madg
I'm curious. What's your political philosophy? Are you a liberal who believes in government power? You seem to think that government should be able to use its leverage to punish private groups that it doesn't agree with.
37 posted on 03/28/2003 10:54:28 AM PST by laureldrive
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: madg
They are entitled to equal ACCESS. They’ve already got that (their ship is docked in the marina). If they want to go the extra step and get the PRIVILEGE of a fee waiver, they have to satisfy the SAME requirements as the others.

Totally wrong (again). The BSA is entitled to everything any other non-profit gets -- not just "access." To do otherwise is to discriminate against the BSA.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

39 posted on 03/28/2003 2:08:44 PM PST by JCG
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To: Kevin Curry
It is the fact that some nonprofit organizations refuse to embrace and celebrate homosexuality that bothers him.

Yes, his position seems more agenda-driven than anything.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

40 posted on 03/28/2003 2:10:58 PM PST by JCG
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To: madg
(Brad Dacus' agendized Pacific Justice Friends are involved... and that makes it look bad for the Scouts.)

His group is called Pacific LEGAL Foundation, by the way. They're strong property-rights supporters and defenders of Prop. 209 and English education. I think they've won at the US Supreme Court in the past, so why do say it "looks bad" that he's involved?

41 posted on 03/29/2003 8:45:27 AM PST by laureldrive
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To: madg
While I generally agree with the points you are making, I do have one comment. Quite a bit can be lumped into the very broad term "non-discrimination", where does society draw the line as to what kind of discrimination is acceptable? For instance, should the sea scouts have to allow admitted pedophiles into their organization? If not, they are discriminating against pedophiles. What about nudists? Same thing.

At some point, society as a whole is going to decide that not all discrimination is bad. Some types of discrimination make sense. For instance, I don't personnally believe women should serve in the military. There are arguments that can be made both ways, but if society decided women shouldn't serve in the military, I don't believe such would be "bad" discrimination.

In the same vein, I don't believe that racial profiling is necessarilly evil, depending upon how it is used. For instance, should security at airports be focused mostly on middle eastern looking men? I believe they should.

BAck to the case at hand, I don't have a problem with this type of discrimination, but believe that each locality and state should be able to determine on its own whether to make this type of discrimination "Illegal". Here, Berekely has apparently done so, and your points above make sense.

That was a long rant to agree with you.

- Brownie
50 posted on 04/02/2003 1:04:24 PM PST by brownie
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