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Say good knight to Crusade clichés [Paul Mulshine]
Newark Star Ledger ^ | 4/3/03 | Paul Mulshine

Posted on 04/04/2003 5:36:21 PM PST by Incorrigible

Edited on 07/06/2004 6:38:44 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

In what passes for criticism among what passes for an intellectual elite in America these days, the concept of Western culture's lingering guilt for the Crusades is being trotted out once again as a sort of one-size-fits-all explanation for the problems of the modern-day Mideast.


(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: christians; clashofcivilizatio; crusades; iraq; iraqifreedom; madden; medieval; muslims; persia; zoroastrianism
I might have to pick up this book.
1 posted on 04/04/2003 5:36:22 PM PST by Incorrigible
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To: Incorrigible; *Clash of Civilizatio
Excellent post.
2 posted on 04/04/2003 5:38:10 PM PST by denydenydeny
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To: Incorrigible
Bump for a more in-depth later read.
3 posted on 04/04/2003 5:38:52 PM PST by k2blader ("Mercy, detached from Justice, grows unmerciful." - C. S. Lewis)
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either way, as I've been saying for months...

Deus Lo Volt!
4 posted on 04/04/2003 5:40:45 PM PST by KneelBeforeZod (Deus Lo Volt!)
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To: Incorrigible
The arabs love to point ot the Crusades as the reason for their angst. While I accept that atrocities were commited in the name Christianity, they happened so long ago. Christians, and the Jews as well, evolved. The Muslims still adhere to medieval hatreds to justify their medieval violence.
5 posted on 04/04/2003 5:41:56 PM PST by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: Incorrigible
It is the moslems who are on a crusade today.
6 posted on 04/04/2003 5:42:57 PM PST by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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To: Incorrigible
The Crusades were centuries ago in a far off land. The destruction of the Twin Towers was two years ago, in this land. Now, which of these events do liberals harp and harp about, and which of these events do liberals attempt to minimize and dismiss as historically irrelevant? Then liberals wonder why we consider them anti-American.
7 posted on 04/04/2003 5:43:48 PM PST by JoeSchem
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To: KneelBeforeZod
"Deus Lo Volt! "??????

do you mean "Deus Vult"? or is there some electric pun here that isn't quite shocking me?
8 posted on 04/04/2003 5:46:42 PM PST by fqued
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To: Incorrigible
I personally have never taxed a single brain cell feeling guilty about the Crusades. Trust Clinton to mischaracterize and screw it up. The Crusades were conducted to liberate the Holy Land from Islamic intruders: the Jews and Christians were there first. Rather than dwell on the Crusades, it wouldn't hurt to go back and read about the Battles of Lepanto and Poitoirs, the re-conquest of Granada by the Spanish and various and sundry other victories that the Europeans fought to keep Islam from overrunning their countries. This isn't exactly ancient history.
9 posted on 04/04/2003 5:50:14 PM PST by 3AngelaD
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To: Incorrigible
Madden isn't sure how we can accomplish that. But he is sure that we won't do it by refighting the Crusades.

As it was back in the middle ages, we may not have any other choice.

Sometimes the alternative to fighting is to become either a victim or a slave. I will be neither.

10 posted on 04/04/2003 5:51:04 PM PST by Bullish
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To: cardinal4
It says a lot that lefties have to go back nine hundred years in order to trash Christianity. Trust Bubba to always be a part of the sliming.
11 posted on 04/04/2003 5:53:10 PM PST by Paul Atreides
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To: 3AngelaD
Bubba can apologize for everyone else, yet can't atone for his own evil.
12 posted on 04/04/2003 5:54:41 PM PST by Paul Atreides
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To: Bullish
I was wondering about that last line myself.

Paul has a habit of throwing in a final statement that can be interpreted a number of ways.

In this case, I'm going with a desire to be more successful in fighting our enemies than the Crusades were.  Though it could easily be interpreted as an anti-war statement.  I just don't think that's Paul's point of view however.

13 posted on 04/04/2003 5:57:55 PM PST by Incorrigible
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To: 3AngelaD
Can't recall anybody bringing up the subject of Muslim guilt over the Byzantine Empire and Constantinople.
14 posted on 04/04/2003 6:16:48 PM PST by Polybius
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To: Incorrigible
What kinda' scares me is our govt thinks it can have a "nice" war. I don't think any war has ever been won by being nice.

The Muslim countries need to be shown that we've had enough and we're not going to stand for any more. PERIOD! As we go after terrorists they need to demonstrate that they support our efforts. If they don't, it seems to me they are standing with the opposite side.

Sometimes you have to hurt some feelings just like you have to break some eggs if you want an omelet. I support an all out effort in the war with Iraq and the war on terrorism. Our lives may just depend on it.

Muslims in this country should be put on notice. Try it here and you will be crushed!

15 posted on 04/04/2003 6:18:53 PM PST by Bullish
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To: cardinal4
I wonder what excuse the Moslems used for the 6th 7th and 8th centuries ?? In AD732 a murderous Muslim army was in France. The Moslems having already conquered Spain, North Africa, Egypt, Syria etc and were now moving into Western Europe intent on exterminating Christianity.

They were defeated at the battle of Tours by Charles Martel "the Hammer" a name given to him for err... Hammering the Moslems

They can not blame the USA as it would not be around for another 1000 years ... nor the Crusader as they were still 300 years in the future nor the British Empire, Western Imperialism nor any other garbage excuse the religion of Slaughter comes up with.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Tours.html

http://campus.northpark.edu/history/webchron/WestEurope/Tours.html

"A Moslem army, in a crusading search for land and the end of Christianity, after the conquest of Syria, Egypt, and North Africa, began to invade Western Europe under the leadership of Abd-er Rahman, governor of Spain. Abd-er Rahman led an infantry of 60,000 to 400,000 soldiers across the Western Pyrenees and toward the Loire River, but they were met just outside the city of Tours by Charles Martel, known as the Hammer, and the Frankish Army."

The Franks won .. does this count as a French victory? you have to go back a long way to find one!
16 posted on 04/04/2003 6:31:05 PM PST by protest1
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To: Incorrigible
This is great---thanks for posting it. I can't believe it appears under the byline of a writer for the Newark Star-Ledger, which I always thought to be unequivocally Dem/Lib.
And it's always nice to see yet another statement by the "brilliant" x42 completely discredited.
17 posted on 04/04/2003 7:48:30 PM PST by willyboyishere
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To: protest1
Charles Martel was called "The Hammer" because, I assume,
martel is the French word for hammer. I know in Italian that martello means hammer, so......
18 posted on 04/04/2003 8:00:06 PM PST by willyboyishere
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To: protest1
From: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Charles Martel

But at the extremity of the empire a dreadful storm was gathering. For several years the Moslems of Spain had been threatening Gaul. Banished thence in 721 by Duke Eudes, they had returned in 725 and penetrated as far as Burgundy, where they had destroyed Autun. Duke Eudes, unable to resist them, at length contented himself by negotiating with them, and to Othmar, one of their chiefs, he gave the hand of his daughter But this compromising alliance brought him into disfavour with Charles, who defeated him in 731, and the death of Othmar that same year again left Eudes at the mercy of Moslem enterprise. In 732 Abd-er-Rahman, Governor of Spain, crossed the Pyrenees at the head of an immense army, overcame Duke Eudes, and advanced as far as the Loire, pillaging and burning as he went. In October, 732, Charles met Abd-er-Rahman outside of Tours and defeated and slew him in a battle (the Battle of Poitiers) which must ever remain one of the great events in the history of the world, as upon its issue depended whether Christian Civilization should continue or Islam prevail throughout Europe. It was this battle, it is said, that gave Charles his name, Martel (Tudites) "The Hammer", because of the merciless way in which he smote the enemy.

 

Evangelism works both ways!


19 posted on 04/04/2003 8:01:05 PM PST by Incorrigible
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To: willyboyishere
Paul Mulshine came to the paper with uber-liberal Star Ledger opinion page editor Richard Aregood from Philidelphia.

He is the only light from anotherwise dim newspaper.
20 posted on 04/04/2003 8:05:21 PM PST by Incorrigible
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To: Incorrigible
I'm pretty sure the US played an insignificant role in the Crusades.
21 posted on 04/04/2003 8:26:23 PM PST by gitmo ("The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain." GWB)
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To: skeeter
Bump later read
22 posted on 04/04/2003 8:57:23 PM PST by jokar (In my experiance, there is no problem so deep, that a good ass kicking can't improve upon.)
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To: All
Bump for the morning crew
23 posted on 04/05/2003 8:01:19 AM PST by Incorrigible
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To: gitmo
undoubtably a big oil republican vrwc
24 posted on 04/05/2003 8:24:48 AM PST by marlin (fuque france - veto everything un)
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To: protest1
How could I have forgotten Charles Martel? He was a hero's hero.
25 posted on 04/05/2003 2:48:36 PM PST by 3AngelaD
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To: Incorrigible; BAMoretti

"I might have to pick up this book."

It took forever but I finally got the book from Amazon. They extended the ship date three times. Not sure which warehouse this book was hiding in but I'm looking forward to the reading.


26 posted on 05/28/2004 6:50:34 AM PDT by Incorrigible (immanentizing the eschaton)
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