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The Conscience of a Conservative - The Conservative Sixties
http://ng.csun.edu/Econ%20375%20Fall%202001/Goldwater/Barry%20Goldwater%20and%20The%20Conservative%201960s.htm ^ | 4/5/03 | Matthew Dalleck

Posted on 04/05/2003 12:57:39 PM PST by tpaine

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Today we see the result of the "Munich of the Republican Party" in the current socalled neo/paleo debates.

The fight was 'won' by the Nixonians, but the battle for our constitution never ends.

1 posted on 04/05/2003 12:57:39 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
"The expansion of the welfare state, he wrote, was an unfortunate and dangerous development that undermined individual freedom"

Goldwater was another example of a train of thought that went back to the founding of the US:

"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, the the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." - Benjamin Franklin, 1766

2 posted on 04/05/2003 1:14:42 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: tpaine
A couple days ago Michael Savage in his radio show played several of Barry Goldwater statements - they were sensational! All I knew of the Goldwater/Kennedy era was that the "right man won" accoriding to the media.
This and how great John Kennedy was.

I wonder if the right man won now. Kennedy is often described as the man who prevented WWIII in the Cuban crisis. I wonder if it was not the other way around - a wise old Russian man giving in to the brush American (while getting Cuba and Turkey in return).
3 posted on 04/05/2003 1:19:25 PM PST by Symix
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>>>The Conscience of a Conservative ... stands today as one of the most important political tracts in modern American history.

While it may be true that Goldwater bridged a certain gap that existed in the conservative movement of the mid-1960`s, he ended his life supporting homosexuality, opposing right to life of the unborn child and defending Bill Clinton. Not a legacy that conservatives should be proud of.

Goldwater may have projected conservatism for a short period, but it was Ronald Reagan who actually promoted and advanced conservatism to new levels. Barry Goldwater took the worse beating by a GOP presidential candidate in the 20th century. Reagan produced two landslide political victories in 1980 and 1984. Reagan also gave American's real tax reform, a victory over communism in the Cold War and revitalized the US economy and military armed forces.

OTOH, in all reality, Goldwater didn't do jacks**t for America.

4 posted on 04/05/2003 1:25:02 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Symix
1960: Nixon v. JFK

1964: Goldwater v. LBJohnson

1968: Nixon v. Humphrey

1972: Nixon v. McGovern
5 posted on 04/05/2003 1:26:36 PM PST by Poincare ((not a good time for a Frenchish screen name))
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To: Poincare
Thanks for the history lesson - I obviously did not know having come to this country in 79. I think what I saw was the Goldwater/Nixon competition in 1960 for the Republican nomination. Nevertheless it was Goldwater who was a statesman of that era and it was Kennedy who won in that election.
6 posted on 04/05/2003 1:37:35 PM PST by Symix
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Symix
>>>All I knew of the Goldwater/Kennedy era was that the "right man won" accoriding to the media.

According to Barry Goldwater too.

"Had he lived, he would have been a good president," Goldwater says of his late friend and Senate colleague, the Democrat he had wanted to run against in 1964."
From Barry Goldwater's Left Turn Washington Post July 28, 1994.

8 posted on 04/05/2003 1:43:55 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Reagan Man
...he ended his life supporting homosexuality, opposing right to life of the unborn child and defending Bill Clinton.

To be fair, AU-H2O married a liberal late in life, when he was slipping into senility. She unfairly bent his ear.

9 posted on 04/05/2003 1:44:52 PM PST by Slyfox
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To: gcochran
Ghosted! Really?

Figures.

10 posted on 04/05/2003 1:45:27 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: tpaine
Reagan and Goldwater are both great Republican heroes no matter their difference of opinion they had on a few issues.
11 posted on 04/05/2003 1:55:44 PM PST by Ipberg
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To: 45Auto
True words, great quote. -- Thanks.
13 posted on 04/05/2003 2:04:34 PM PST by tpaine
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To: gcochran
I was being a bit sarcastic. We are in agreement on Goldwater. That's clear. I've also read through the years, it was Brent Bozell who actually penned the famous Goldwater political quote: "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. ... Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue".

Well known conservative columnist Don Feder summed up Goldwater's political career rather well.

Here's Feder's piece.

Goldwater did conservatives more harm than good

BARRY GOLDWATER LOVED HIS COUNTRY. He was gutsy and outspoken. For carrying the conservative standard at a difficult time, he deserves our thanks.

He was also foolhardy, arrogant, envious and, in his latter years, bitter. As the leader of a movement aspiring to govern, he was a dismal failure.

On accepting his party's nomination at the 1964 convention, Goldwater intoned that memorable line: "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. ... Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" -- a fine sentiment, had it been put in the proper context. (The Founding Fathers were extremists.) It never was, and served only to reinforce Goldwater's lunatic-fringe cachet.

In his acceptance speech, it would have been so easy to offer an olive branch to his Republican critics, without compromising principles, by stressing points of agreement. Instead, he stopped just shy of cussing them out. ("Those who do not care for our cause, we don't expect to enter our ranks in any case.")

The square-jawed candidate worked very hard to reinforce his media image as a cross between the Durango Kid and Dr. Strangelove. He spoke nonchalantly of nuclear defoliation of the jungles of Vietnam and allowing NATO commanders to use tactical nukes at their discretion.

At a GOP unity conference, Goldwater was asked about his policy toward Germany. Eisenhower, who was in attendance, winced when the senator replied, "I think it was the Germans that (sic) originated the modern concept of peace through strength." Ike latter remarked: "You know, before we had this meeting I thought that Goldwater was just stubborn. Now I am convinced he is just plain dumb."

The Arizonan is credited with turning a clique into a political movement. If not for the troops trained in '64, Ronald Reagan would never have been elected in 1980, we are told. Perhaps. Or, possibly, if the senator had run a less disastrous campaign, it wouldn't have taken another 16 years to put a conservative in the White House.

If Goldwater hadn't dragged 36 House Republicans down to defeat in 1964, much of the Great Society might never have been enacted.

Goldwater's jealousy was most conspicuous in his attitude toward Reagan, whose televised address in his behalf ("A Time to Choose") did more for the Republican ticket than anything Goldwater did himself.

The senator resented the fact that Reagan assumed the mantle of movement leadership within two years of The Speech.

In consequence, he backed Nixon over Reagan in 1968. In 1976, Mr. Conservative supported Gerald Ford and practically accused the Gipper of extremism for opposing the Panama Canal giveaway. Not until Reagan had the nomination sewed up in 1980 did Goldwater grudgingly endorse the greatest conservative president of this century.

Perversity as well as a newfound taste for media adulation led Goldwater to attack social conservatives following his departure from the Senate. After pleading for right-to-life support during his last re-election campaign, he urged abortion rights in the '90s, employing the same incisive reasoning with this issue that he'd applied to nuclear war in the '60s. ("Women have been aborting ever since time began.")

People have been doing all sorts of things since the dawn of time, not all to the advancement of civilization and the benefit of humanity.

He loathed Christian conservatives. "These gentlemen who profess to run a political effort through the church, I think they're doing a disservice to the church and a disservice to politics." Abolitionists ran a highly successful political effort through Northern churches, as the civil-0rights movement did through Southern churches 100 years later.

In 1993, Goldwater became a cheerleader for Clinton's push for gays in the military, commenting (again with bumper-sticker logic) that you don't have to be "straight" to "shoot straight."

Republicans were making too much of a fuss over Whitewater ("no big deal") , the senator said. Those who credit Goldwater with helping to ease Nixon from office forget that he stuck with the felon nearly to the bitter end. Almost to the last, Goldwater thought Watergate was no big deal.

Before nostalgia gets the better of us, it is necessary to see Barry Goldwater as he actually was -- a mediocre mind (he told an interviewer in 1963, "You know, I haven't really got a first-class brain") whose strong suits were integrity and dignity. Long before the end, he lost even those attributes.

Thank you Don Feder.

14 posted on 04/05/2003 2:10:07 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Symix
All I knew of the Goldwater/Kennedy era was that the "right man won" accoriding to the media.
This and how great John Kennedy was.
I wonder if the right man won now.
-Symix-


Either way, the world would be a much different, and better place today, imo.

The lbj/nixon era was a total disaster from the constitutional conservatives political view.
15 posted on 04/05/2003 2:12:47 PM PST by tpaine
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To: Reagan Man
Goldwater never had a chance to "do jacks**t for America".
Nixon saw to that, and the Rinos have driven the applecart ever since. Ron was in the back of the cart, tossing apples. - A good president, but in bed with his bosses.

16 posted on 04/05/2003 2:19:20 PM PST by tpaine
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To: Ipberg
I liked, and voted for both men.

But heros?? Nope.
17 posted on 04/05/2003 2:22:24 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
I was a student for Goldwater after leaving the army and returning to the university.
18 posted on 04/05/2003 2:26:36 PM PST by RLK
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Reagan Man
"Before nostalgia gets the better of us, it is necessary to see Barry Goldwater as he actually was -- a mediocre mind (he told an interviewer in 1963, "You know, I haven't really got a first-class brain") whose strong suits were integrity and dignity. Long before the end, he lost even those attributes."

Typical of the modern rinos mediocre political methods.

- Yep, Goldwater completely underestimated the democratic liberal hold on this country in '64, and used the wrong campaign methods to counter them.
He was beat bad, and imo, went round the bend a bit at that point.
But I would much rather have a man "whose strong suits were integrity and dignity" at the helm, then a man like trickie dicky. Nixon was a 'conservative' disaster.
20 posted on 04/05/2003 2:42:06 PM PST by tpaine
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