Dear Germany: Have you learned anything?

Townhall.com ^ | April 8, 2003 | Dennis Prager

[Asher]

I remember now. You are the poster who invariably informs the Jewish people that they should keep quiet about the Holocaust because it makes them look weak. I guess it's unsurprising when you put it together with your other vile ideas.

[tictoc]

Anyone who knows Germany well today is fully cognisant of the fact that there is little genuine remorse for the terrible crimes of that time. No, what really angers them is that Germany was defeated.

How much time have you spent in Germany? I have lived here most of my life and can tell you that your claim is absolute B.S.

Read Prager's article again, he has it right.

Also, your vitriolic attack on DBtoo is uncalled for and you should apologize.

[Joe Boucher]

No argument there mate.
Again not meaning to make light of the Jews plight during WWII, but evil has popped up since then also mostly in parts of Africa (Rwanda as well as Asia (Cambodia) and in these and other purges the world did nothing.
I mean we just don't want to get involved. They are only Jews or Africans or Asians. Pretty sickening but that is the way it seems.

[DBtoo]

This resentment against all German Gentiles is not healthy. My family had first-hand experiences there, and not all non-Jews hated Jews; many were friends and many married.

Since the 70s, there has been a lot of hateful propaganda against the Germans, and it has worked remarkably well, as your post shows. I'm sorry you feel so much anger and hate, it can only be harmful to you. This attitude of some concerns me because it doesn't have to be that way; it's a needless suffering of sorts.

I don't believe the Dutch were complicit in the extermination of the Jews. I lived in Holland a few years ago, and they too hate the Germans and have deep resentments because of the brutal occupation of Holland. Many Dutch starved to death, and the Nazis took away Dutch Jews as well. Please do not judge people collectively, that only leads to needless suffering and continued violence. I stand by my statement that not all Germans who were not Jewish worshipped Hitler. Many hid Jews and gave up their lives to try to get rid of Hitler and the nazis. Those people do deserve to be remembered. The 2 college students, who were a brother and sister aged 19 and 20 were beheaded in public. Perhaps you are thinking of a similar incident. But resentment and hatred are bad for your heart and your spirit. This is not a perfect world, and at times evil is unleashed.

Jews were a main target, as were Gypsys, Catholics, and homosexuals, and those who disagreed with Hitler. I'm sorry you have so much anger in your heart. If you knew the entire truth you would see things in an entirely different light, and your heart would be free of such hatred. I lost my real grandfather there; he was executed.

[longjack]

German ping.

Here's a Swiss article BMCDA sent me. It is long (too long for me to translate right now), however it does fit in nicely with Prager's article.

Ist die «Umerziehung» zu weit gegangen?

Re: My thoughts on the posts on these threads:

I think the German baby boomers have had the history of the 2nd world war 're-educated' completely out of them. I don't think they could make any comments over the events in the 30's and 40's that were based on objective material.

People who I have talked to, including those who were German WWII vets, including Germans who were POW's in Russia and the US, never indicated to me that the only remorse was that they lost the war. Those decades were terrible times of millions of deaths and incredible destruction. I have never met anyone who enjoyed it or was interested in a re-do.

longjack

[DBtoo]

Always question the movtives of those in charge!

Good point. It could happen anywhere, and it does happen because many people assume their country's leaders are always right. When people stick their heads in the sand, and stop questioning, it makes it too easy for those with evil motives to take over.

[DBtoo]

After my grandfather was killed, my grandmother married a Jewish man. This was well into the war. Many escaped in the early to mid 30s when they felt trouble coming.

Others, like my grandmother and step-grandfather escaped when it became too late. They did so by hiding in a cargo ship which came to America where they settled.

There has been a lot of negative material put out over the years claiming all Germans were at fault. This is simply not true and impossible if you really think about it; in every country of the world there are some very kind people with love in their hearts for all people. Many during WW2 did hide Jews, risking their lives. The human nature never changes. Germans are not inherently evil; there are evil ones and some very brave moral ones. You have to remember too that there was a very successful propaganda campaign carried out, and people being what they are, always thinking their nation and their people are right, fall for it. Those who think for themselves and do some research find the truth.

[tictoc]

Ist die «Umerziehung» zu weit gegangen?

A good and thoughtful article, which clarifies some of the things I had been thinking about. Thank you for the link!

[longjack]

You're welcome, tictoc. BMCDA sent me the link.

longjack

[DBtoo]

Again you lie

????????????????

Trust you to blame the Jews for their own deaths

For anyone to blame the Jews and not the nazis for the extermination campaign against the Jews is absurd, and I said nor implied any such thing as you know. Please open your eyes and your heart.

[DBtoo]

Believe it or not, there are plenty of people in this world who will go out of their way to help the persecuted, even in 1930s-1940s Germany.

[CasearianDaoist]

I think you have it right. The Boomer's in the US have the same problem. What I notice over here is that people under 35 think that the Cold War was some sort of "Marketing Strategy" used for political and economic advantage by "big business." We have lost control of our own history in the US.

[DBtoo]

I remember you now. You are the poster who invariably informs the Jewish people that they should keep quiet about the Holocaust because it makes them look weak.

Either you have me confused with someone else, or you are using dishonest smear tactics. I've never even thought such an idea. It's impossible to debate someone who is not capable of having an honest discussion. I care about people and respect human life very much thankyou. I care about you because you must be unhappy being so obsessed with blind hatred. It's just not healthy. Please try to be more honest and understanding, and realize there are some good Germans out there too.

[DBtoo]

No, those "good" people did not remain silent. They put their lives on the line to stop the evil. The silent ones were too fearful of being executed; it takes a special soul to stick their neck out to save the lives of others at the peril of their own.

[snodog]

It takes a very special, brave person to fight something like that.

You are right, it does take someone special to fight evil. More important it takes that one special leader to recoginize evil, then rally his people to defeat that evil.

Chamberlin," peace in our time" was not that leader. Winston Churchill was. And he met the evil of Hitler headlong, not with compromise, or treaty but with war.

Does the women in the garden have the power of Churchill, or President Bush? She does if she wants to. All she has to do is stop digging in the garden long enough to realize that there is evil all around her, and she can stop it just by lifting her head out of the garden(sand)to realize it.

[auggy]

"I wouldn't put it past that woman to put certain people away the same way Hitler did. It could easily become a reign of terror."

I never quite thought of her being that evil. You may be right. She just may have the characteristics for another Hitler or Saddam. Let us pray she never is put in a position where she could use her evil ways. First Lady was too close for comfort.

[DBtoo]

As you probably know, there are people who simply don't pay attention to the political situations in their country. They think such matters are "boring", and they live their lives only thinking of their own families, or their own hobbies. Some don't have the intellect to understand. I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong, it's just the way it is in life. Even now in this country many people just aren't interested in the war in progress. I see that in my own community. Those who do care are here on FR and writing to their congressmen and letting their voices be heard.

Again, it is hard to stand up to a cruel totalitarian regime. Look at what Saddam did to such people.

[johnb838]

I too respect and admire Dr. Prager a great deal. It is interesting to me that IIRC the Torah does not always support forgiving the children for the sins of the fathers. And for good reason -- the acorn doesn't fall so far from the tree. But I can see at least giving them the benefit of the doubt.

What I see in Germany, particularly since the reunification, concerns me greatly. I think Germany, and France, have gone far beyond refusing to confront evil in Iraq. They embraced Saddam. They still embrace him. It is distasteful.

Thank God there is still a core of people here in the US determined to do the right thing whatever the cost. We've been infiltrated by the godless socialists, but we still have a core of righteousness and an awakening to the reality of the world is happening. God has obviously been with us in this conflict. We need to stand firm.

[An.American.Expatriate]

You are correct longjack - Germans do not, as a rule, really "learn" about the Nazi period - it is a very strange predicament - too much information about what really lead to the rise of Hitler leads to accusations of anti-semitism - too little and they are ignoring history.

It is time to shed the collective guilt trip and really learn from the past. Won't happen any time soon though.

(PS I have a daughter who attended German Schools so I do have first hand knowledge of what is taught/not taught.)