Minnesota CCW: In the concealed-weapons debate, is compromise possible?

Many sheriffs and local police chiefs strongly support the right to carry a concealed weapon, despite gun-rights groups' fears that law enforcement opposes the idea of self-defense.

Eric Klang, the Crow Wing County sheriff, and Bolduc, the Brainerd police chief, are allowed wide latitude under the law to determine whether a qualified applicant has a need for a permit. Both said they tend to approve permits for people who meet the law's basic requirements and state a legitimate public safety need or occupational hazard.

"As long as a person meets the requirements of the law, they should get a permit," Klang said.

Thirteen counties in this area, with approximately 8 percent of the state's population, are home to roughly half of the permits granted statewide in 2002. The approval rate in this area was 98 percent. One county - Marshall, in the northwest corner - approved all 210 applications.

These statistics, like every other fact in the gun debate, are used to argue both sides.

John Caile, spokesman for Concealed Carry Reform Now, which is lobbying for changes in the law, said the statistics show the law needs to be changed. He said the "area of the greatest need" for self-defense - higher-crime areas in the metro area - are where permits are most difficult to get.

Granting gun permits in outstate Minnesota, he said, is like selling "the most snow shovels in Florida - 10 times as many snow shovels in Florida as in Minnesota." He added that the reason there are so few applications in St. Paul and other metro cities is because gun owners believe they will be turned down.

Rebecca Thoman, executive director of Citizens for a Safer Minnesota, a gun-control group that is fighting proposed changes in the law, said the statistics show the current system accommodates both views of the gun culture.

She said that while people in rural Minnesota may "see a gun as a safety device, people in cities see a gun as being dangerous."

It is hard to imagine John Lenertz having a problem getting a concealed-weapon permit anywhere in the state. His job as a bail bondsman who deals with both money and criminals would appear to meet even the strictest definition of "occupational need."

Lenertz, a strong supporter of the Brainerd Police Department, has never drawn his gun and hopes he never feels the need. "The last thing that I would ever do, would be to draw out my weapons," he said. "I would never ever use deadly force unless I knew I was going to die."

But Lenertz passionately believes that Minnesota needs a uniform permitting system so that the same rules apply in Brainerd as in Frogtown. Like most knowledgeable gun owners, he believes permit-holders should be well trained in the operation and use of firearms.

His vision of the ultimate gun need is the woman walking to her car in a darkened parking ramp, with a predator lurking in the shadows. This is as popular an image for gun-rights supporters as the road-rage shooting is for concealed-weapons foes.

"If she could have been trained perhaps to carry something, she might not have had to die," Lenertz said. Lenertz regards a firearm as a useful tool, not a source of suffering.

That theme is carried through in the law enforcement building in Brainerd, where Crow Wing County Sheriff Eric Klang has his office. The hallways are lined with displays that you would not expect to see in an urban police station: rows upon rows of bullets, shotgun shell casings and ammo large and small, grouped by category and displayed in handsome glass cases against a green felt background. The collection was donated in memory of a local sportsman, Les Ebert.

Crow Wing County Sheriff Eric Klang said his belief in granting permits to qualified applicants, however, does not mean he believes the weapons will do much good.

Klang said weapons are often taken from their owners and used against them, and he has doubts about how well civilians can perform when faced with the life-or-death decisions that law enforcement officials train and study for years to learn how to handle. And the burglaries and assaults that are most common in rural Minnesota will not be stopped by carrying a weapon, Klang said.

"There's absolutely, really no reason to be carrying a gun on your person," Klang said. "But it's our Second Amendment right." He said he worries how the presence of guns at a chaotic scene will affect law enforcement. "We show up on the scene - how are we to know who the good guys or the bad guys are?" he asked.

A few blocks away, at the local VFW hall, Richard Hull was getting ready to introduce another generation of Minnesotans to the guns they may use in the woods next fall. Hull, a retired state trooper, teaches a firearms safety class required by the Department of Natural Resources for young hunters.

Hull is also a concealed-weapons permit holder who supports a uniform statewide standard. In all his years as a trooper, he said, the only bullets he fired were at deer that had been injured by automobiles.

Hull believes training is vital - not only in the workings of the weapon, but in the effects of using it on another human being. "You can't shoot somebody because you're mad at them," he said, "only to save your life or the life of another." He does not want the Legislature to do away with the ability of a police chief or sheriff to reject a questionable candidate who looks good on paper.

"Just because a person hasn't been hospitalized for mental illness, or isn't a convicted felon," Hull said, "the local chief ... may know that individual is a felon-in-waiting." In those cases, he said, the chief should have the authority to exercise judgment.

Ultimately, there may be no way to work out the argument for the individual right to self-defense and the position that the social good requires limits on that right. Bolduc, the Brainerd police chief, noted that the current concealed-weapons law allows police and sheriff's departments to make their own interpretations.

Jim Ragsdale covers state government and politics and can be contacted at jragsdale@pioneerpress.com or (651) 228-5529.

Rebecca Thoman [...] said that while people in rural Minnesota may "see a gun as a safety device, people in cities see a gun as being dangerous."

If that were the case, the people in rural Minnesota would be right, and the people in cities would be wrong. But it's not the case - a great many people in the cities have a rational understanding of firearms.

Klang said weapons are often taken from their owners and used against them,

Wouldn't it be nice to have the argument with someone who was arguing from facts, instead of myth?

the current concealed-weapons law allows police and sheriff's departments to make their own interpretations.
"Maybe that's how it should be," he said.

No way in hell.

Byrd Says "Free Republic is Pretty. Pretty Pretty Pretty Pretty. But I want it to be a figment. A Fig Leaf! Fie on Free Republic! Fie on Conservatives!

Tick him off. Donate Here By Secure Server

Or mail checks to
FreeRepublic , LLC
PO BOX 9771
FRESNO, CA 93794

or you can use

PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com

STOP BY AND BUMP THE FUNDRAISER THREAD- It is in the breaking news sidebar!

Technically, Vermont is the only state that gets this right. If you don't have a felony, you have the right to keep and bear arms there.

The compromise should be if you have a good record, you can get a CHL with a class and training. Texas's way is very good, I think.

A basic shooting test and scoring a written test should be there. However, you have to be a real retard if you fail the written part... Come to think of it, you' d have to be blind to fail the shooting test here too. But I think those are reasonable levels.

No "compromise" is needed. If you don't want a CCW, you don't have to get one. There's your compromise.

That is the most common-sense answer I have ever heard- thank you!

The Texas law is far from good. The fee is too high, the training too expensive, the limits on where you can carry are too extensive, and this nonsense about failing to conceal being a crime is simply unacceptable.

One county - Marshall, in the northwest corner - approved all 210 applications.

Gun-grabber logic dictates that merely living in this county should be enough to put one at significantly greater risk of lethal gun related crime... well??

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.