First airline pilots trained to carry guns in cockpit graduate Saturday

Mercury News ^ | 4/17/03 | AP - Glynco,CA

[NormsRevenge]

GLYNCO, Ga. (AP) - Only two of the 48 commercial airline pilots in the first class being trained to carry guns in the cockpit failed to make it through the early days of a rigorous course at a federal facility.

[spodefly]

Some pilots had blisters on their trigger fingers from shooting 8,000 rounds from their semiautomatic pistols Wednesday night.

Hard to imagine how they could get 8000 rounds cycled Wednesday night ... takes me 2 or 3 years to go thru 8000 rounds in my 92F. That cockpit is going to be swiss cheese.

In all series-ness, handling a gun in a small environment while strapped into a seat, handling operational duties, and with so many possible 'wrong' shots, does demand specific training ... hopefully the training is a good as possible, and lets not get all carried away with the buerocracy or the touchy-feely aspects.

[hadit2here]

What is this krap?? They don't want pilots (or anyone 'cept the guvmint guys) to carry guns, but are forced by public opinion to allow them to. So make up a "course" that is so onerous that everyone "washes out", then crow about how they wanted to allow pilots to carry, but they "couldn't pass the course". What a bunch of BS!

And why didn't they offer this "how to fend off an armed attacker" course a long time ago to pilots- even without the pilots "carrying"? What an ineffectual, screwed up bureaucracy this is! I hope nobody thinks all this play acting is actually "security". And where are all those "impenetrable" cockpit doors?? Why try to "fend off" an attacker who has gotten through to the cockpit? Just blow 'em away, make sure they're dead and watch for any more coming in. Aren't there two pilots in the cockpit? With most modern aircraft, the plane can pretty much fly itself for a while if the two pilots need to "air condition" some hijacker.

We're aware of the threat to aircraft now. They probably won't use that as a major weapon again. We need to actually be doing something useful instead of closing the barn door after the horses have gone!

Oooops! Fergot! It's not "security" they're trying to provide, it's their socialist gun grabbing agenda they're putting in place.

[joesnuffy]

We are passing out AK-47s on the streets of Baghdad to strangers ...with no federal background checks..
But dont trust Aircraft pilots most of whom are or were combat pilots...graduates of survival schools and armed with vulcan cannons and or cruise missles etc...?
When weenie beaurocrats run amok

[goldstategop]

I don't get it either. And someone please ditch that silly rule requiring pilots to keep their gun in a locked case even during bathroom breaks. Whole lot of freakin' good it does if terrorists time a hijacking takeover when the captain's gone to take a leak. Its says a lot about our attitude to guns that we're leery of trusting our nation's finest with them - you know, in whose hands we entrust our lives every time we take to the friendly skies.

[Squantos]

Found some more on same subject..............


Pilots learn cockpit combat
By Fred Bayles, USA TODAY

GLYNCO, Ga. — Sweating and grunting, a roomful of airline pilots took turns playing good guys and bad guys.

The arming of pilots was allowed by Congress last year, and some will be flying with weapons this weekend.
By Stephen Morton, AP

The good guys were trying out self-defense techniques to disarm the bad guys, who had invaded their cockpits with red rubber knives and fake guns.

"You have to be really good bad guys to make this work," their federal instructor barked in encouragement.

With that, the attackers came at the pilots from behind. The pilots rose from their seats to confront them.

TSA PILOT GUIDELINES
Firearms must be holstered and kept inside lockboxes that are approved by the TSA.

Pilots must carry the lockboxes inside nondescript bags when they are in airports or boarding airplanes.

Pilots should never let a bag that contains a gun out of their sight.

When they travel as passengers, pilots must hand the bags that contain guns to the ground crew and watch them get loaded in cargo holds. Pilots will reclaim the bags at planeside after they land.

At no time should pilots check firearms as conventional luggage.

Source: TSA






"It's pretty intense," one airline captain remarked. "You really don't have much room to maneuver in a cockpit fight."

The pilots taking classes this week at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center here will be among the first to fly armed. Some will be flying with weapons as early as Sunday.

The arming of pilots was allowed by Congress last year to prevent flights from being taken over by terrorists, as happened in the hijackings of Sept. 11, 2001. The 46 pilots taking classes here are the first of what may eventually be thousands of pilots deputized as federal law officers and authorized to use lethal force to defend their cockpits. After finishing 48 hours of training Saturday, they will head back to their airlines armed with .40-caliber handguns. They'll keep them in shoulder holsters while at the controls.

The arming of pilots was opposed by the Bush administration, airlines and aviation safety experts. But pilots argued that it is a necessary layer of protection against another attack. "There has to be something between that cockpit door and that F-16 that's going to blow you out of the sky if the terrorists take over," said Stephen Luckey, chairman of the national security committee of the Air Line Pilots Association, the nation's largest pilots union.

The weeklong course shows how much things have changed since 9-11. Before the attacks, the union had opposed arming pilots. It instead adhered to a longtime policy of "accommodate, negotiate and do not escalate" with hijackers.

But under the new training, pilots receive lessons in hand-to-hand fighting, firearms and the "psychology of survival" — how keep their heads in combative situations. There are also lengthy sessions on the firing range. They learn not only how to shoot, but also how to shoot within the close quarters of a cockpit. Their guns hold special bullet loads designed to do maximum damage to an attacker without passing through his body.

"This has been excellent training," said one of three female captains taking the training. "I fly commercial airliners all over the world, and this will give me the tools to keep my passengers and airplane safe."

The pilots, who were not identified by name or airline, were volunteers specially selected for the first training course. Under the federal rules, they must undergo a criminal background check, take a psychological test and meet with a psychologist to be eligible. John Moran, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) official who runs the program, said two pilots in the class were dropped after failing to meet undisclosed requirements.

Not everyone is enthusiastic about the program. Earlier this year, 10 former members of the National Transportation Safety Board took out a newspaper ad against allowing pilots to be armed. "It introduces an element of uncertainty that will be difficult to train for," said Susan Coughlin, a former NTSB co-chairwoman.

Some pilots have their own reservations. They say the TSA rules discourage pilots from volunteering. Although the first class is having its transportation, room and board paid for, and any lost salary made up, pilots attending subsequent classes will have to pay their own way. The TSA says training and equipment, including the $500 gun, cost $6,200 per pilot.

Pilots are also angry about a regulation that requires their guns to be kept in a lockbox when carried outside the cockpit. Pilots who are not on duty — for example, those traveling from home to a flight assignment — must put the lockbox and gun in the cargo hold of the plane.

TSA spokesman Robert Johnson said the restrictions follow guidelines set by Congress. "The intent was to limit the pilot's jurisdiction to the cockpit," he said. "We wanted to guard against the temptation of using the gun in other situations."

Pilots in the first class said they were pleased with the program.

"You never know what may be on the other side of the cockpit door," said one pilot, a veteran of 16 years of commercial flying. "If we can defend against a threat, the benefits far outweigh the risks."


Stay Safe !

[mwyounce]

There's no such city as Glynco, GA...

Little pet peeve of mine... the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center was put at the site of the old Glynco Naval Air Station (named for GLYNn COunty), but the NAS is no more. If you look on the map, you'll see it's in Brunswick, GA (which is where I grew up).

[Squantos]

Call Fred Bayles at USA Today....he wrote the text or did ya read it ?

As a grad of FLETC I agree on the "location"..........Stay Safe !

[mwyounce]

sorry.. I didn't mean to make it look like I was correcting you... I was just adding the comment to the thread... guess I should've removed your name from the to field.

Growing up on St. Simons Island, my next door neighbor was (still is, I think) an instructor at FLETC.

[Squantos]

Nooo ......... if ya see me screwing up please tell me !.....Sorry if I came across like that.

Hope all is well....Stay Safe !